M7: Mafiafia - Day 5

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Re: M7: Mafiafia

Postby Magna » Tue Sep 23, 2014 11:39 pm

The message is real, but I never asked KoolKat to defend me nor are we working together as Mafia.

My chatroom is a place established since M5 where specific users would gather together to discuss the current state of the game and to talk strategies and exchange information. Anyone can join only if we can have their complete trust and have them truthfully role-claim to us.

Oh and I never asked qig to post my PM to him here, it was just a misfortune. Me asking someone directly on the forums for their role for no reason is suspicious. Me PMing someone privately asking someone to join a secret group and role claim to be trustworthy is not totally suspicious.

I know some of you may bandwagon on me for this but before you do, look back at the previous games and see where loose bandwagoning has gotten us before.
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Re: M7: Mafiafia

Postby Zeldamaster12 » Tue Sep 23, 2014 11:47 pm

But why would you bluntly ask for our roles? You should know better. None of us know YOUR role, so how can we know if you are Mafia or not? You could easily lie about your roles. Yes, you could get caught, but there's a chance you wouldn't. Also, I do believe that you and KoolKat are working together because so far, you and him are the only ones we've heard who have sent PMs.

If anyone else has gotten a PM from someone asking you to join this chatroom, please make a post saying so and who PMd you.
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Re: M7: Mafiafia

Postby Zeldamaster12 » Tue Sep 23, 2014 11:49 pm

Also, excuse me for double posting, but in M6, we jusr came up with a bunch of random users to bandwagon on. We actually have huge suspicion against you two.
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Re: M7: Mafiafia

Postby FallingSnow » Tue Sep 23, 2014 11:51 pm

Zeldamaster12 wrote:Also, excuse me for double posting, but in M6, we jusr came up with a bunch of random users to bandwagon on. We actually have huge suspicion against you two.
Since you're not supposed to edit posts in the game topics, double posting is allowed. Just try not to triple/quadruple/quintuple/etc. post :)

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Re: M7: Mafiafia

Postby Zeldamaster12 » Tue Sep 23, 2014 11:54 pm

Well, crud. I did edit my post earlier when I left out something about who PMd me, was not aware of that. Makes sense now, though. Sorry about that. :p
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Re: M7: Mafiafia

Postby Magna » Tue Sep 23, 2014 11:56 pm

Zeldamaster12 wrote:Also, excuse me for double posting, but in M6, we jusr came up with a bunch of random users to bandwagon on. We actually have huge suspicion against you two.
Thats fine, but what if you are wrong? You may lose a Townie or even a special.
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Re: M7: Mafiafia

Postby Zeldamaster12 » Tue Sep 23, 2014 11:59 pm

Um, there's plenty of evidence backing this up, and I'm not the only one who is suspicious of you two. It seems like you are trying to put me in a false sense of security so I won't think you're Mafia.
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Re: M7: Mafiafia

Postby Magna » Wed Sep 24, 2014 12:03 am

Just saaaayiiiiiiiing.

But seriously. I'm not mafia and KoolKat isn't either. He role claimed to me and I did to him so we have each others trust, but we aren't mafia. I was just trying get more people to join my alliance so that we can join together to win the game. It was my mistake to send the PM to someone like qig. I wasn't intentionally trying to force you to reveal your roles, besides, I was gonna reveal mine and all the others in my group so its pretty fair.
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Re: M7: Mafiafia

Postby Zeldamaster12 » Wed Sep 24, 2014 12:10 am

But the whole concept just seems way too off to be trusted. Like I said before, we don't know if you're Mafia or not, and you can lie about your role. This chatroom idea just seems way too good to be true. I requested that people tell if others PMd about this group as well so we can at least be sure if this isn't an attempt for the Mafia to figure out peoples' roles.
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Re: M7: Mafiafia

Postby Magna » Wed Sep 24, 2014 12:13 am

Zeldamaster12 wrote:But the whole concept just seems way too off to be trusted. Like I said before, we don't know if you're Mafia or not, and you can lie about your role. This chatroom idea just seems way too good to be true. I requested that people tell if others PMd about this group as well so we can at least be sure if this isn't an attempt for the Mafia to figure out peoples' roles.
If you want, you can ask fellow group members of what we did in past games. They will say that we are an innocent group used for trading inside information and developing strategies.

You can ask a few people from my group like:
-Me
-Pseudo-dino
-KoolKat
-LittleBoo
-Valtries The Fox

Those are a few.
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Re: M7: Mafiafia

Postby Pseudo » Wed Sep 24, 2014 12:17 am

You know, it's far too early to be trusting anyone, there's really no point in this whole discussion.

But yeah, we had an alliance back in M5. Blue's post is accurate. It was certainly a safe and friendly group back then but I can't say for sure that it would be now... Things can change, this is a different game, Blue could easily be Mafia this time. We were all town during our alliance in M5 but that was basically luck (and the fact that my role was revealed by Gohan on Night 1). It's not safe to assume that the same alliances will work this time around. People can become quite treacherous in Mafia when they want to have other people killed...
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Re: M7: Mafiafia

Postby Zeldamaster12 » Wed Sep 24, 2014 12:22 am

Was it used in M6?

I know you were the game host, but others could have used it if it's been open since M5.
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Re: M7: Mafiafia

Postby Pseudo » Wed Sep 24, 2014 12:26 am

The IRC channel was not used during M6. The roles were much different so we all went on our separate ways to other secret IRC channels, generally, and some of us weren't in the game in the first place.

All this said, I don't think that distributing #dreadfulsecrets in a PM is a particularly suspicious move by Blue. It could be, certainly, but I think he's serious about wanting to gain allies through it. Overall though, I'd say that this "once a member, always a member" type of setup doesn't work all that well for Mafia alliances unfortunately. It can if you're lucky, but it's not safe to assume you're lucky when others might be lying to you.
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Re: M7: Mafiafia

Postby Magna » Wed Sep 24, 2014 12:36 am

It was a dumb move on my part to send people PMs of a secret alliance and asking for their roles. But I was doing it in the intentions of wanting to get allies as Pseudo-dino said.
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Re: M7: Mafiafia

Postby underFlo » Wed Sep 24, 2014 12:52 am

Blue Bomber wrote: You can ask a few people from my group like:
-Me
-Pseudo-dino
-KoolKat
-LittleBoo
-Valtries The Fox

Those are a few.
I feel left out, I also wanna join the fun D:

Anyways, onto a good game guys.
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Re: M7: Mafiafia

Postby qig » Wed Sep 24, 2014 12:53 am

Pseudo-dino wrote:The IRC channel was not used during M6. The roles were much different so we all went on our separate ways to other secret IRC channels, generally, and some of us weren't in the game in the first place.

All this said, I don't think that distributing #dreadfulsecrets in a PM is a particularly suspicious move by Blue. It could be, certainly, but I think he's serious about wanting to gain allies through it. Overall though, I'd say that this "once a member, always a member" type of setup doesn't work all that well for Mafia alliances unfortunately. It can if you're lucky, but it's not safe to assume you're lucky when others might be lying to you.

I don't understand this line of reasoning at all.

If the pm is accurate as to what goes on the chat, it was much, much more than blue dread simply wanting to "gain allies".
" We work as a group of mixed roles, no matter which side we partake, to mess with the town"
"we won't kill you until the very end where we decide whether to let the Mafia or town win."

It's pretty clear that chat existed for reasons way beyond simply making allies. It existed to fuck with the town and attempt to rig the results of the game. There's plenty of ways to get allies in a Mafia game that don't involve secret chats where people discuss how to "mess with the town" and how to rig results.

It's also certainly not the type of actions a Game Master should be partaking in either.
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Re: M7: Mafiafia

Postby underFlo » Wed Sep 24, 2014 1:05 am

qig wrote:
Pseudo-dino wrote:The IRC channel was not used during M6. The roles were much different so we all went on our separate ways to other secret IRC channels, generally, and some of us weren't in the game in the first place.

All this said, I don't think that distributing #dreadfulsecrets in a PM is a particularly suspicious move by Blue. It could be, certainly, but I think he's serious about wanting to gain allies through it. Overall though, I'd say that this "once a member, always a member" type of setup doesn't work all that well for Mafia alliances unfortunately. It can if you're lucky, but it's not safe to assume you're lucky when others might be lying to you.

I don't understand this line of reasoning at all.

If the pm is accurate as to what goes on the chat, it was much, much more than blue dread simply wanting to "gain allies".
" We work as a group of mixed roles, no matter which side we partake, to mess with the town"
"we won't kill you until the very end where we decide whether to let the Mafia or town win."

It's pretty clear that chat existed for reasons way beyond simply making allies. It existed to fuck with the town and attempt to rig the results of the game. There's plenty of ways to get allies in a Mafia game that don't involve secret chats where people discuss how to "mess with the town" and how to rig results.

It's also certainly not the type of actions a Game Master should be partaking in either.
Even of Blue Bomber is town, the irc channel really seems like what qig said, these secret allies totally defend the purpose of Mafia - it's Town vs Mafia, not irc channel vs rest of the game.
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Re: M7: Mafiafia

Postby Magna » Wed Sep 24, 2014 1:13 am

Pretty sure nien did pretty much the same thing in M5. No one said a word about that.

And yeah, the part about messing with town was supposed to mean "We will be a mixed group of players where we will play until the end to gather data, and we will honorably in the end choose whether the mafia or town wins."

It sounds like rigging the game but that was just me adding some things. The truth about our alliance is that we are an innocent group of players who come together once in a while to post their gained knowledge, discuss strategies, report important announcements within the game... It's innocent really and you seem to be missing the point of my alliance.

But yeah, essentially, we would have an alliance of players with mixed roles, but we promised to remain truthful to each other even though we might be on opposite teams. We don't intentionally decide which team wins in the end, we follow our code of honor and accept death if either the town or mafia gets chosen to die. It's all code of honor.
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Re: M7: Mafiafia

Postby Magna » Wed Sep 24, 2014 1:15 am

Nickname wrote:
qig wrote:
Pseudo-dino wrote:The IRC channel was not used during M6. The roles were much different so we all went on our separate ways to other secret IRC channels, generally, and some of us weren't in the game in the first place.

All this said, I don't think that distributing #dreadfulsecrets in a PM is a particularly suspicious move by Blue. It could be, certainly, but I think he's serious about wanting to gain allies through it. Overall though, I'd say that this "once a member, always a member" type of setup doesn't work all that well for Mafia alliances unfortunately. It can if you're lucky, but it's not safe to assume you're lucky when others might be lying to you.

I don't understand this line of reasoning at all.

If the pm is accurate as to what goes on the chat, it was much, much more than blue dread simply wanting to "gain allies".
" We work as a group of mixed roles, no matter which side we partake, to mess with the town"
"we won't kill you until the very end where we decide whether to let the Mafia or town win."

It's pretty clear that chat existed for reasons way beyond simply making allies. It existed to fuck with the town and attempt to rig the results of the game. There's plenty of ways to get allies in a Mafia game that don't involve secret chats where people discuss how to "mess with the town" and how to rig results.

It's also certainly not the type of actions a Game Master should be partaking in either.
Even of Blue Bomber is town, the irc channel really seems like what qig said, these secret allies totally defend the purpose of Mafia - it's Town vs Mafia, not irc channel vs rest of the game.
I guess you're right, we should really change our code. It really is rigging the game if we have two sides that truce for a while when we should be killing each other.
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Re: M7: Mafiafia

Postby qig » Wed Sep 24, 2014 1:16 am

I'm not missing the point of your alliance, your changing the point of the alliance after getting called out about it.
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