Mafia Discussion

The popular forum game that separates the good from the bad, the strong from the weak, and the loose-cannon cops from the slightly schizophrenic. That's all after we figure out who's who, of course.
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Danny
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Re: Mafia Discussion

Postby Danny » Fri Sep 29, 2017 2:57 pm

I was being sarcastic.
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Re: Mafia Discussion

Postby Pseudo » Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:07 pm

Side Games has been archived, since it only hurt activity for the main Mafia games.
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Re: Mafia Discussion

Postby xDestroy » Sat Sep 30, 2017 6:44 pm

Pseudo wrote:Side Games has been archived, since it only hurt activity for the main Mafia games.
Rip
no

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Re: Mafia Discussion

Postby Unidentified » Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:19 pm

RIP Side Games, you won't be missed by many

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Re: Mafia Discussion

Postby Oshi » Sat Sep 30, 2017 9:22 pm

Well that was fast lol
Don't expect me to post here often, if at all.

I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure that this isn't supposed to happen.

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Re: Mafia Discussion

Postby Cedur » Sun Nov 05, 2017 2:18 pm

Should day phases last 48 hours (at least as long as half of the players are alive)? 24 hours seems too few for me to get something going especially because timezones.
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Re: Mafia Discussion

Postby Sancles-Chan » Sun Nov 05, 2017 3:10 pm

Cedur wrote:Should day phases last 48 hours (at least as long as half of the players are alive)? 24 hours seems too few for me to get something going especially because timezones.
Not too little for other people, you just need to play better and act faster.
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Re: Mafia Discussion

Postby Electriking » Sun Nov 05, 2017 3:32 pm

Cedur wrote:Should day phases last 48 hours (at least as long as half of the players are alive)? 24 hours seems too few for me to get something going especially because timezones.
48 hours would just cause the game to drag for too long. 24 hours is the best phase length as it doesn't drag the game for too long and would ensue that all players should be able to find some free time to be able to be active in each prase.
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Re: Mafia Discussion

Postby Unidentified » Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:20 pm

Cedur wrote:Should day phases last 48 hours (at least as long as half of the players are alive)? 24 hours seems too few for me to get something going especially because timezones.
Because everyone would enjoy a game that takes a month to end

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Re: Mafia Discussion

Postby Danny » Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:03 pm

Cedur wrote:Should day phases last 48 hours (at least as long as half of the players are alive)? 24 hours seems too few for me to get something going especially because timezones.
I have argued with you about this so many times, so allow me to repeat myself.

24 hour phases are long enough because they encompass the entirety of a day, they cover every single timezone, and they allow at least one hour at any point in time for anyone from anywhere to make a post and be active. If you are not able to squeeze in a post within a 24 hour time period, then maybe you are too busy to be playing Mafia. Plenty can be accomplished within 12 hours, let alone 24, you do not need a full phase length to plan something out, and if you do, then maybe you aren't the best person to be planning something out. Another issue that has already been brought up is that 48 hour phases would just take way too long, and even in a 24 hour phase, if nothing is happening, you're just losing peoples' interest in the game, and that's a fact.
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Re: Mafia Discussion

Postby Cedur » Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:40 am

To continue the discussion in the M47 host signup topics.

Vigilantes: Danny, I don't think you can apply this discussion for a game when there's like four or five town-sided people. I took the gimmick from a ToS mode (and, as a reminder about how things could be worse, at ToS the penalty for vigilantes is SUICIDE) for M33 and M35, and besides I just dug it out because Disco Inferno is running at EData's server and I don't have a new game available yet. It's another experiment, hard to balance, and definitely a completely different thing than the common setup with a single vigilante who's not limited on bullets whatever. For that, I don't see a big problem with both penalty and no penalty. I wouldn't judge the former as pointless.

Reckless players: Okay, I don't think we can uniformly define what a reckless player is, and some things warrant a ban while others don't, it's different from case to case. Someone being vigi and shooting Night 1 for no reason? Someone calling for an alliance as an unconfirmed townie? Someone setting up a random bandwagon Day 1? Someone just following every bandwagon without any own participation? The problem with people like Noodle is that they are/were priorily known for having a big lack of sense, so they are a significant risk for ruining games by stupidity. However I just leave the opinion that there is no uniform definition of "what is reckless".
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Re: Mafia Discussion

Postby Danny » Sat Nov 25, 2017 5:27 pm

Town of Salem is also a pretty shit way to play Mafia, as someone who has been playing Mafia for years. This Mafia subcommunity has turned to shit and I've already given my 100 Reasons Why, so don't bother asking. The ideologies on what is considered good for games and what gets overlooked are absolutely ridiculous, and the constant arguments on what is acceptable and what is stupid are getting tiresome. The argument of whether or not the vigilante role should have penalties has always been around and the opinion has constantly shifted from no to yes to no again, and it's getting redundant. Actual guidelines and rules, or at the very least an actual role database that has enforcement to it, should have been put in place a long time ago, and now people are running around rampant designing their own roles whilst buying the names off of other roles. The "vigilante" role has been mangled so far past its original form that what is actually the true vigilante role has been dismissed here as a shitty idea.

Creativity should have no bounds, but for the sake of game balance and some conformity to the games being played, actual legitimate evergreen roles need to be established, because I'm getting sick of seeing people rant on about how the Gravekeeper role works when the role they're referring to has had its name borrowed to several different mechanics. By all means should people be allowed to create their own roles and mechanics, but when it boils down to reusing a role name for a mechanic of their choosing, conformity is lost and it's easy to confuse people when you have someone talking about the Cultist role as a third party role when it's actually a Mason-like role, but it's also a Miller except they know who they are, but the Miller also knows who they are, except when they don't. That example that I've given has already been discussed before, too, so don't tell me it's ridiculous, because I already know it was, I was there.

Another issue permeating the subcommunity is the reliance on places such as 8flight's Mafia server to justify points made in an argument about game balance. If y'all like 8flight's Mafia server so much, why don't you just ditch playing Mafia here and go there instead? It doesn't make sense to advertise someone else's Mafia server, such as 8flight's, if people complain about an ongoing issue with activity and lack of players here, you're just going to drive them away from this place, which I would imagine is not what is wanted. You could argue against this all you want, but the truth of the matter is that if you're complaining about the player base here being dead, it would help if you aren't promoting a "better" place to play Mafia.

All in all, I'm completely done with this community's Mafia. I've done my time as a gamemaster, I've reviewed games, I've criticized games, I've criticized playstyles, I've criticized the way people think, I've changed minds, and not to sound like an egotistical maniac, I've done my part in revolutionizing how Mafia is played here to some extent, and people have agreed on that. The activity of the gamemasters here has dwindled considerably, and I already reapplied, but I was never met with any response by any of the three gamemasters, so I've given up. Good luck with your future Mafia games.
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Re: Mafia Discussion

Postby Warlock » Sat Nov 25, 2017 5:40 pm

Well rip in peas.
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Re: Mafia Discussion

Postby PixelPest » Sat Nov 25, 2017 6:04 pm

Danny wrote:
To put it out there and be completely honest, we didn't re-hire you as a GM because of your pessimistic and narcissistic attitudes. Would you have made this post saying you were done with the community if you were hosting M47? I think it's safe to assume not.

We don't have reliance on 8flight's server whatsoever for game balancing and not once have I seen any references to it. Examples would be great as for all I know there are none. I also haven't seen any promotions of 8flight's server as a better place to play Mafia, just a different one, and likewise they do the same for us.

Also what's wrong with people not necessarily sticking to exactly what the roles are? Not everyone is an elitist here like you and needs everything to be perfect and opening things up to creative interpretation on a forum for playing Mafia for fun sees no issues.

It's a good thing you've decided to separate yourself for now since your poor scope of knowledge which you believe to be all-encompassing and negative attitude are doing nothing to support and improve this community

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Re: Mafia Discussion

Postby Danny » Sat Nov 25, 2017 8:32 pm

PixelPest wrote:To put it out there and be completely honest, we didn't re-hire you as a GM because of your pessimistic and narcissistic attitudes.
And no one bothered sending me a reply about that? And what pessimistic and narcissistic attitudes? I've literally given full disclosure that, while what I'm saying sounds wholly narcissistic, there are literally people that will agree to what I've said, and it doesn't take much to see that. Would you rather I say that I was a shit gamemaster and I should have never been put in that position in the first place? And where have I exactly been pessimistic? I'd like some sources on that, because as far as I'm concerned, I have never been pessimistic. I've been against things and have stated reasons why, but I have never been outright pessimistic.
PixelPest wrote:Would you have made this post saying you were done with the community if you were hosting M47? I think it's safe to assume not.
I actually completely forgot about M47, I would have given up my hosting position anyway.
PixelPest wrote:We don't have reliance on 8flight's server whatsoever for game balancing and not once have I seen any references to it. Examples would be great as for all I know there are none. I also haven't seen any promotions of 8flight's server as a better place to play Mafia, just a different one, and likewise they do the same for us.
Huh? There have been plenty of references to 8flight- oh, I'm sorry, EcstasyData's Mafia server over the course of the past year. A key example of a reference to it was the whole debate about adding the dead user role to the Discord server "like the way 8flight's server is set up". Other examples can be found posted on the occasion in the Discord server if you paid attention.
PixelPest wrote:Also what's wrong with people not necessarily sticking to exactly what the roles are? Not everyone is an elitist here like you and needs everything to be perfect and opening things up to creative interpretation on a forum for playing Mafia for fun sees no issues.
Are you kidding me? I said what was wrong with not establishing conformity to the roles. And how am I an elitist? I suggested adding conformity and creating evergreen roles so there aren't arguments about the confusion of roles and what they do which has existed before. This is not about making things perfect or destroying creative interpretation, this is about establishing an extremely loose guideline so there isn't confusion or arguments in the future. I literally said creativity should have no bounds, and I promote ingenuity when people create interesting and intriguing roles, how is that being an elitist? If I wanted to be an elitist, I'd suggest making it so people can only pick their roles from a very specific database constructed by the gamemasters, but that's boring and not fun.
PixelPest wrote:It's a good thing you've decided to separate yourself for now since your poor scope of knowledge which you believe to be all-encompassing and negative attitude are doing nothing to support and improve this community
What? I have given countless suggestions and feedback on a plethora of issues that have plagued Mafia since it came around on this forum, and they've either been ignored, they've been logically deconstructed, or they've been taken into heavy consideration, and I'm just now being told it's doing nothing to support or improve the community? This, saying my knowledge is poor, and reaching as far as calling me an elitist, all feel like a personal attack. Are you meaning to tell me that everything I have said, suggested, and even done myself were all extremely poor decisions and that my extremely poor intelligence has lead to the failure of Mafia? Is there nothing good you'd like to say about me? Speak up.
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Re: Mafia Discussion

Postby Sancles-Chan » Sat Nov 25, 2017 8:44 pm

honestly mafia here is just boring at this point and I'm pretty much done with it.
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Re: Mafia Discussion

Postby TLtimelord » Sat Nov 25, 2017 8:50 pm

PixelPest wrote:
Danny wrote:
To put it out there and be completely honest, we didn't re-hire you as a GM because of your pessimistic and narcissistic attitudes. Would you have made this post saying you were done with the community if you were hosting M47? I think it's safe to assume not.

We don't have reliance on 8flight's server whatsoever for game balancing and not once have I seen any references to it. Examples would be great as for all I know there are none. I also haven't seen any promotions of 8flight's server as a better place to play Mafia, just a different one, and likewise they do the same for us.

Also what's wrong with people not necessarily sticking to exactly what the roles are? Not everyone is an elitist here like you and needs everything to be perfect and opening things up to creative interpretation on a forum for playing Mafia for fun sees no issues.

It's a good thing you've decided to separate yourself for now since your poor scope of knowledge which you believe to be all-encompassing and negative attitude are doing nothing to support and improve this community
Alright, most of this just seems to be you dismissing Danny's genuine criticisms without giving any convincing counterarguments and then assuming no one likes him and telling him that.

For the record, I speak on behalf of myself when I say this, I think Danny is without a doubt the best GM this site ever saw, easily better than any of you current ones combined, for all the reasons he already laid out. He gave genuine criticisms about the obnoxious attitudes regarding smbx mafia as well as you guys and how generally you guys aren't doing as good a job as you could be. Seems reasonably honestly. He has every right to call you out since he used to be in the exact position you were. He is not narcissistic for doing this.

You really need to chill yourself out. How you acted was not professionally.
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Re: Mafia Discussion

Postby Unidentified » Sat Nov 25, 2017 9:42 pm

I might have disagreed with him on the earlier discussion, but now Danny is completely right. I have seen myself enjoying mafia here less each time because of reasons stated on Danny's post.

PixelPest, as TNT stated, your attitude was very unprofessional. Danny has much better arguments to support his point while most things in your post are baseless accusations, bad arguments, and at some extent, even personal attacks.

At this point, I am starting to think on if I should continue playing or stop and see if it gets better eventually. There are many games here that either had a drama involved or were easily forgettable. I only actually enjoyed two games out of all games after the hiatus. You could think that there were about five games, but I would say that the average player is not supposed to forget or hate more games than enjoy games.

I want to give another chance to this community, but it is really tough when they can't seem to solve the problems they created. And a game master that should be working more than anybody else to help solving the problems decides to bash the person that explained several problems that should be solved for a bigger general enjoyment.

I can give another chance to SMBX mafia or I can play somewhere else. And if the people that are responsible for the mafia forums negate the issues here and bash the person that pointed several real problems, then I know exactly what path I will choose.

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Re: Mafia Discussion

Postby PixelPest » Sun Nov 26, 2017 10:17 am

Danny wrote:
...and all others affected:

I'd like to make a public apology for the unprofessional and inappropriate behaviour I exhibited yesterday. Whether my accusations were justified or not the tone and language I used was completely unjustified and overly harsh, as well as completely disrespectful towards Danny and those with similar views as him. Despite the fact that I made that post while flustered about a significant amount of real-life issues happening in my household at the time, I duly take full responsibility for my actions and apologize for the drama that I caused and the feelings that I may have hurt. I hold no ill-regard against Danny or anyone else involved in this and will to my utmost ability be sure to maintain appropriate composure in the future. Thank you

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Re: Mafia Discussion

Postby Perunasose » Fri Dec 01, 2017 2:59 pm

Can anyone create a mafia game at any time?


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