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Re: M45 SPECIAL Host Sign-ups

Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:38 pm
by Witchking666
PixelPest wrote:
Witchking666 wrote:This game has too much going on and most of the abilities are useless either way.
There may be a lot going on but everything is there for a reason. Each of the teams has a killing ability with a contingency and a reward for killing the head of another team, along with a conversion ability as well as two other abilities--in most cases one of which is to help get team members together and one is used as an asset to the team altogether.
Witchking666 wrote:It is very complicated because of the cultists already and I do not think that it is wise to have both a conversion mechanic and a lot of abilities.
Sure it's a complex game but everything there is in there for a reason and each team follows a specific structure. It's built to be an interesting game and less-focused on a single mechanic such that it can play in a fun way. Each of the primary three teams have two roles that are the same throughout and then two helper abilities that each serve a purpose; I don't see any that are apparently useless. Just because it has a lot of abilities doesn't mean it's unreasonable and because of its structured-ness it isn't too hard to understand.
Witchking666 wrote:My suggestion would be to keep the cultists and the killers and to make the other two members of each team not have an ability. If you want you can make it so the killing role or the wannabe can inspect but I doubt it's truly necessary.
I don't want to make the Overlord abilities OP and then have the team screwed over when they are killed which is why I don't want to give them an inspection ability. By spreading out abilities across the team it gives each member a specific purpose, makes all of the roles in the game fun to play, and keeps the teams relatively balanced even when a player has been killed.
Witchking666 wrote:Those TPs are fucking cool though. Never seen anything like it before.
Thanks.
Witchking666 wrote:The killing roles themselves need clarification. "Can kill a player each Night, as long as they haven't killed on the previous Night." Does that mean they can only kill every other night? Explain please.
That's literally what it means; I don't see how it needs further explanation. You killed the previous Night--you can't kill on the current Night. It's just part of what I used to balance the game so that there aren't three killing abilities plus the chance for a player to be killed if targeted by two Converters. This basically makes it so that each of the Overlords can only kill every other Night if they choose, however the are not forced directly via role description to kill on even or odd Nights, etc.

Basically to sum it up this game gives every role an ability to make it more fun so that no one has a bum role to promote activity and each role has a specific purpose as being an asset to the team (either to help bring the team together or to try to screw up another team). The Overlords cannot kill every Night to balance things out and the use of giving every role an ability is that it doesn't totally screw up the team when one player is killed from it
Makes quite some sense actually. I do have my doubts on whether a complicated game like that will be handled well by the community but I am gonna go ahead and approve it. Your arguments are valid.

Re: M45 SPECIAL Host Sign-ups

Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:40 pm
by Mosaic
MECHDRAGON777 wrote:
ShadowStarX wrote:Two Towns, One Problem
- 15 players
- 7v7v1
- No team contact
- Cardflip

Cold Town - Wins by eliminating the hot town and the serial killer.
Sheriff: Can inspect a player each night to learn their color.
Doctor: Can protect a player from nightkills each night. Can self-protect once.
Vigilante: May kill a player during the night.
Townsperson
Townsperson
Townsperson

Millwright: Thinks they're a regular townsperson.

Hot Town - Wins by eliminating the cold town and the serial killer.
Sheriff: Can inspect a player each night to learn their color.
Doctor: Can protect a player from nightkills each night.
Vigilante: May kill a player during the night.
Townsperson
Townsperson
Townsperson

Millwright: Thinks they're a regular townsperson.

The Murderer - Wins by being the last one or one of the last two standing.
Serial Killer: Can kill a player of his choice each night. Immune to nightkills.
Witchking666 wrote:Very interesting concept, Approved!
Okay, we can all pack up and go home, we know this game will win.
Hey, don't be so quick to shoot down everyone else's games and let the poll run first

Re: M45 SPECIAL Host Sign-ups

Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:08 pm
by ShadowStarX
Dude, my game is literally just 2 identical factions against each other with a serial killer in-between.

Re: M45 SPECIAL Host Sign-ups

Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:15 pm
by Paper
Witchking666 wrote:You would so best to remove the cultist and never think of it again.
First of all, rude, and secondly, you didn't even want to possibly suggest a nerf instead of blatantly asking for it to be removed entirely?

I'm definitely gonna rebalance the bonuses, but please explain to me exactly why the only option for the Cultist is for him to be removed without an ambiguous "he's overpowered, he's a garunteed win."

Re: M45 SPECIAL Host Sign-ups

Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:02 pm
by Warlock
Also, any chance you can check out my changes? You've skipped me for PixelPest.

Re: M45 SPECIAL Host Sign-ups

Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:50 pm
by Witchking666
Paper wrote:
Witchking666 wrote:You would so best to remove the cultist and never think of it again.
First of all, rude, and secondly, you didn't even want to possibly suggest a nerf instead of blatantly asking for it to be removed entirely?

I'm definitely gonna rebalance the bonuses, but please explain to me exactly why the only option for the Cultist is for him to be removed without an ambiguous "he's overpowered, he's a garunteed win."
A cultist is one of the strongest roles in mafia. No nerf is gonna change that fact. They are literally able to steal a team member every night. And if you would nerf it to only recruit every other night it becomes really weak. The reason why I didnt suggest a nerf is because I cannot think of one that doesn't significantly tip the scales in favor of or against the cultist. The only thing I can think of that would make it more fair would be removing the buffs from the cultist and just make it so converted members do not get an ability.

Re: M45 SPECIAL Host Sign-ups

Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 10:54 pm
by Paper
Witchking666 wrote:They are literally able to steal a team member every night. And if you would nerf it to only recruit every other night it becomes really weak. The reason why I didnt suggest a nerf is because I cannot think of one that doesn't significantly tip the scales in favor of or against the cultist. The only thing I can think of that would make it more fair would be removing the buffs from the cultist and just make it so converted members do not get an ability.
That gets me thinking, what if they start only being able to do so every other night, but if they get enough successful conversions, they get rewarded with the ability to convert more frequently?
Also, I'm not sure how these attributes fit into it, but one of the downsides I gave the original Cultist I had was that he could only convert people that didn't perform an action on the same phase. Maybe I could expand on that and say that he can't convert people that were visited on the same phase either (ie if they were inspected, protected, role-blocked).
That, and I could probably reduce his night-immunity to only applying to the first night, so he's not super powerful, but won't get wasted on the first night.
This might also be a good idea. It's just that, if that were changed; If people get converted, they not only don't have any abilities, but they also lose any abilities they once had, and won't have even a smidgen of a chance of receiving any unless the cult leader dies, which essentially punishes them for doing...nothing wrong?

Maybe I'm overthinking all this. The main reason(s) I wanted the Cultist in there in the first place was to put some pressure on the main 3 factions and encourage some advanced strategies, but perhaps he might not be necessary to accomplish that.

Sidebar, I re-arranged the death bonuses for the main factions and changed a couple. Are they any better?

Re: M45 SPECIAL Host Sign-ups

Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 5:22 pm
by Mosaic
GAMM's been Upperdated

Re: M45 SPECIAL Host Sign-ups

Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 5:07 pm
by Paper
Witchking666 wrote: The Cultist is however still significantly overpowered. There is no need to remove the entire role since most of the OP-ness originates from the buffs anyway. The part where a second cult leader can be chosen is insanely strong. I would advice you to remove the upgrading gimmick from the cultist and just change it into a regular cultist that wins once the cult contains over 50% of the remaining players.
Fixed; the Cult no longer gains bonuses on conversions, and I changed their win condition. I originally wanted to give the converted members something more to do, but then I realized, if they still ALSO have contact with their old factions, then they can provide valuable intel on their whereabouts, and since conversions only succeed on players who don't perform an action, that intel by itself is pretty powerful. Hopefully the Cult is balanced now.

Re: M45 SPECIAL Host Sign-ups

Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:21 pm
by MECHDRAGON777
If my game wins for any ungodly reason, I want another poll if the third party should be added back or not.

Re: M45 SPECIAL Host Sign-ups

Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:44 pm
by Warlock
When does the poll go up?

Re: M45 SPECIAL Host Sign-ups

Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:47 pm
by Cedur
Warlock wrote:When does the poll go up?
as of now it's only me and Paper who aren't approved yet

Re: M45 SPECIAL Host Sign-ups

Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:12 pm
by PixelPest
MECHDRAGON777 wrote:If my game wins for any ungodly reason, I want another poll if the third party should be added back or not.
I don't think that's necessary. Two GMs recommended it and you can get some other opinions if you want but you need to make your decision on whether or not you're adding it back in before the poll goes up

Re: M45 SPECIAL Host Sign-ups

Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:00 am
by MECHDRAGON777
PixelPest wrote:
MECHDRAGON777 wrote:If my game wins for any ungodly reason, I want another poll if the third party should be added back or not.
I don't think that's necessary. Two GMs recommended it and you can get some other opinions if you want but you need to make your decision on whether or not you're adding it back in before the poll goes up
I am only asking is becuase Witchking666 said to remove it, while you and Psuedo-Dino both say to keep it. I am actually confused by being told to do contradicting things.

Re: M45 SPECIAL Host Sign-ups

Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:41 pm
by Paper
Paper, from the Discord wrote:my game's cultist can only convert every even numbered night now
to those who were giving feedback on the host signup thread

Re: M45 SPECIAL Host Sign-ups

Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 3:41 pm
by Electriking
Paper wrote:
Paper, from the Discord wrote:my game's cultist can only convert every even numbered night now
to those who were giving feedback on the host signup thread
Yeah, that makes him very under powered

Re: M45 SPECIAL Host Sign-ups

Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:05 pm
by Sancles-Chan
I should just troll everyone and submit a game right now

Re: M45 SPECIAL Host Sign-ups

Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:07 pm
by xDestroy
Sanct wrote:I should just troll everyone and submit a game right now
You already submitted the best game ever thoe

Re: M45 SPECIAL Host Sign-ups

Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:07 pm
by Paper
Electriking wrote:
Paper wrote:
Paper, from the Discord wrote:my game's cultist can only convert every even numbered night now
to those who were giving feedback on the host signup thread
Yeah, that makes him very under powered
Well, think about it this way:

If the Cultist lives for a few phases, and has converted a few players, by then, several people will probably be dead. This makes the Cultist's job easier, since his team has to make up more than 50% of the alive players (including himself), instead of having to be the last team standing. The longer the game goes on, more people die, and more people get converted. Giving the Cultist the power to convert every night would make his job extremely easy. That, and he has night-kill immunity.

Re: M45 SPECIAL Host Sign-ups

Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:54 pm
by xDestroy
ok.... i hate to be that guy but.... wheres the poll already