SMBX2 (2.0 Beta 3)

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Re: SMBX 2.0 Beta 3

Postby Electriking » Sun Dec 11, 2016 2:03 pm

kota_sans wrote:my pc is win xp
Yes this is your problem. UPGRADE IT!
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Re: SMBX 2.0 Beta 3

Postby Imaynotbehere4long » Sun Dec 11, 2016 3:51 pm

Horikawa Otane wrote:LunaLua is incredibly simple...If people don't learn it (at least at a basic level), they're mostly lazy.

Frankly? In a lot of ways LunaLua is easier than Events, so you could make the same argument there...I personally wouldn't even know where to begin. Heck, I literally don't even use events because I find LunaLua, on the whole, much easier.
Horikawa, I can explain why people are unwilling to learn Lua: just take what you said, switch the two around, and boom: you essentially have the mentality of those who don't want to learn Lua.
Using Events is incredibly simple...If people don't learn it (at least at a basic level), they're mostly lazy.

Frankly? In a lot of ways Events are easier than LunaLua, so you could make the same argument there...I personally wouldn't even know where to begin. Heck, I literally don't even use LunaLua because I find Events, on the whole, much easier.
It's a simple case of "the thing I already know how to use is much easier to work with than the other thing I know nothing about." The only difference between your mentality and theirs is that you learned Lua first, whereas they learned SMBX Layers and Events first. I don't intend to start an argument; I just wanted to give you an insight toward how people think since you seemed so baffled as to why people don't want to use LunaLua.
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Re: SMBX 2.0 Beta 3

Postby Electriking » Sun Dec 11, 2016 3:55 pm

Imaynotbehere4long wrote:
Horikawa Otane wrote:LunaLua is incredibly simple...If people don't learn it (at least at a basic level), they're mostly lazy.

Frankly? In a lot of ways LunaLua is easier than Events, so you could make the same argument there...I personally wouldn't even know where to begin. Heck, I literally don't even use events because I find LunaLua, on the whole, much easier.
Horikawa, I can explain why people are unwilling to learn Lua: just take what you said, switch the two around, and boom: you essentially have the mentality of those who don't want to learn Lua.
Using Events is incredibly simple...If people don't learn it (at least at a basic level), they're mostly lazy.

Frankly? In a lot of ways Events are easier than LunaLua, so you could make the same argument there...I personally wouldn't even know where to begin. Heck, I literally don't even use LunaLua because I find Events, on the whole, much easier.
It's a simple case of "the thing I already know how to use is much easier to work with than the other thing I know nothing about." The only difference between your mentality and theirs is that you learned Lua first, whereas they learned SMBX Layers and Events first. I don't intend to start an argument; I just wanted to give you an insight toward how people think since you seemed so baffled as to why people don't want to use LunaLua.
Thing with LunaLua is that you can do things that cannot be done with just events and layers
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Re: SMBX 2.0 Beta 3

Postby Imaynotbehere4long » Sun Dec 11, 2016 4:00 pm

King of Eterity wrote:Thing with LunaLua is that you can do things that cannot be done with just events and layers
That's not my point. My point was that people who are used to Events see LunaLua as being more complex, so despite the greater possibilities, they stick with Events. Like I said earlier: I wasn't trying to start an argument, just explain why people are unwilling to learn Lua despite everything.
I've decided to cancel SMBXville Under Seige. After my 1st Senior year of college, I realized I wouldn't have enough time to devote to finishing my four-level episode. Apologies to those who cared.
My favorite quote on the entire forum:
Spoiler: show
mechamind wrote:
AeroMatter wrote:People who think "autistic" is an adjective and not a verb.
You autistic some people so much with that statement.
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Spoiler: show
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Re: SMBX 2.0 Beta 3

Postby Electriking » Sun Dec 11, 2016 4:05 pm

Imaynotbehere4long wrote:
King of Eterity wrote:Thing with LunaLua is that you can do things that cannot be done with just events and layers
That's not my point. My point was that people who are used to Events see LunaLua as being more complex, so despite the greater possibilities, they stick with Events. Like I said earlier: I wasn't trying to start an argument, just explain why people are unwilling to learn Lua despite everything.
Yeah if you are used to one thing then you may see another version of it more daunting and complex, even if it is actually simpler. Another example of this could be Legacy editor and PGE.
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Re: SMBX 2.0 Beta 3

Postby Horikawa Otane » Sun Dec 11, 2016 6:53 pm

Imaynotbehere4long wrote:The only difference between your mentality and theirs is that you learned Lua first, whereas they learned SMBX Layers and Events first. I don't intend to start an argument; I just wanted to give you an insight toward how people think since you seemed so baffled as to why people don't want to use LunaLua.
What are you TALKING about? Dude, I made levels using Events and Layers back before LunaLua, or LunaDLL Autocode for that matter, even existed.

I KNOW how to use Events and Layers like holy shit. I SWITCHED to using almost exclusively LunaLua because it's pretty much objectively easier in 80%+ of use cases. Doing complex layers hide/show patterns on a timer, for example, is hella easier in LunaLua than in Events. And you get more control. Bother to take a half hour to learn it and you'll see this.

The DIFFERENCE between "my mentality" and "theirs" is that I took the time (and it really wasn't much) to learn LunaLua. That's it. I'm also not "baffled" as to why people don't use LunaLua - it's laziness, pure and simple. Hence why we're working on systems to make doing simple tasks in LunaLua as user-friendly as possible. Gotta work with the reality we're given - and that reality is that people hate learning new things. Inertia and sloth are very real things, so we're finding ways with PGE plugins to work around this.

What compelled you to just assert, unevidenced, random garbage like this?

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Re: SMBX 2.0 Beta 3

Postby Enjl » Sun Dec 11, 2016 7:25 pm

Imaynotbehere4long wrote:
Using Events is incredibly simple...If people don't learn it (at least at a basic level), they're mostly lazy.

Frankly? In a lot of ways Events are easier than LunaLua, so you could make the same argument there...I personally wouldn't even know where to begin. Heck, I literally don't even use LunaLua because I find Events, on the whole, much easier.
It's a simple case of "the thing I already know how to use is much easier to work with than the other thing I know nothing about." The only difference between your mentality and theirs is that you learned Lua first, whereas they learned SMBX Layers and Events first. I don't intend to start an argument; I just wanted to give you an insight toward how people think since you seemed so baffled as to why people don't want to use LunaLua.
I've been using SMBX since 2011 and honestly fuuuuuuuck events. Lua is just so much easier. The issue is like horikawa said: people are lazy.
And no, it's not something like "oh you already knew how to program before Lua". LunaLua is how I got into programming. There are no tricks. I just decided to expand my horizon and go with the times.
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Re: SMBX 2.0 Beta 3

Postby timocomsmbx2345 » Sun Dec 11, 2016 7:38 pm

Horikawa Otane wrote:
King of Eterity wrote:
Snessy the duck wrote:I think it's a little odd that the loading screen in the hardcoded gfx folder is actually different from 1.3.0.1, yet the actual loading screen is still the one from 1.3.0.1! Is that some kind of bug or what?
Remember the game is still in development, so it may or may not be.
The reason is that the loading screen is handled slightly differently from all other hardcoded gfx. It's not handled via the same sorts of calls. So the hardcoded gfx replacement we've coded doesn't work for it.

It's something that is planned to be fixed and updated "eventually," but it's far from a top priority right now. Right now the priorities are new NPCs, new Blocks, and Frogsuit.

Incidentally...

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I'm still waiting for all the 1.4.x features to be added to 2.0 as well a the chucks, sm64 thwomps, smm winged spinies & red bullet bills, fire snakes, SMB3 spikes, Amazing Flyin' Hammer Brothers, streches, golden bowser statues, the elite koopas, wigglers, & dragoneels.
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Re: SMBX 2.0 Beta 3

Postby PixelPest » Sun Dec 11, 2016 7:56 pm

Patience young Padawan. They can't do everything at once

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Re: SMBX 2.0 Beta 3

Postby loop13 » Sun Dec 11, 2016 8:00 pm

PixelPest wrote:Patience young Padawan. They can't do everything at once
Who?
Actually, that isn't important. Anyway, LunaLUA can accomplish pretty much anything.
I still need experience, but It is superior to events.
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Re: SMBX 2.0 Beta 3

Postby timocomsmbx2345 » Sun Dec 11, 2016 8:04 pm

Jayce 777 wrote:
PixelPest wrote:Patience young Padawan. They can't do everything at once
Who?
Actually, that isn't important. Anyway, LunaLUA can accomplish pretty much anything.
I still need experience, but It is superior to events.
even everything i just said?
SMBX 2.0 β4 is here!!! How about 2.0 β5?
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Re: SMBX 2.0 Beta 3

Postby loop13 » Sun Dec 11, 2016 8:11 pm

With hardcore coding, it should be possible. Besides, they made new characters with unique abilities. As long as your limit is above the skies, anything is possible.
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nostalgia is a beautiful thing, isn't it?

anything before 2020 is most likely me being a weirdo or an idiot.

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Re: SMBX 2.0 Beta 3

Postby PixelPest » Sun Dec 11, 2016 8:13 pm

Jayce 777 wrote:Who?
The dev. team
timocomsmbx2345 wrote:even everything i just said?
LunaLua can accomplish that. There's issues with arrays though that make things more difficult. Due to the way SMBX was originally programmed it's difficult to add more NPCs, but I think it's being worked on, and despite that, there's other ways to add more NPC AIs

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Re: SMBX 2.0 Beta 3

Postby FanofSMBX » Sun Dec 11, 2016 10:22 pm

Horikawa Otane wrote:
Imaynotbehere4long wrote:The only difference between your mentality and theirs is that you learned Lua first, whereas they learned SMBX Layers and Events first. I don't intend to start an argument; I just wanted to give you an insight toward how people think since you seemed so baffled as to why people don't want to use LunaLua.
What are you TALKING about? Dude, I made levels using Events and Layers back before LunaLua, or LunaDLL Autocode for that matter, even existed.

I KNOW how to use Events and Layers like holy shit. I SWITCHED to using almost exclusively LunaLua because it's pretty much objectively easier in 80%+ of use cases. Doing complex layers hide/show patterns on a timer, for example, is hella easier in LunaLua than in Events. And you get more control. Bother to take a half hour to learn it and you'll see this.

The DIFFERENCE between "my mentality" and "theirs" is that I took the time (and it really wasn't much) to learn LunaLua. That's it. I'm also not "baffled" as to why people don't use LunaLua - it's laziness, pure and simple. Hence why we're working on systems to make doing simple tasks in LunaLua as user-friendly as possible. Gotta work with the reality we're given - and that reality is that people hate learning new things. Inertia and sloth are very real things, so we're finding ways with PGE plugins to work around this.

What compelled you to just assert, unevidenced, random garbage like this?
Actually, there can be other reasons besides laziness. For example, I haven't really learned LunaLua yet (well, I don't have SMBX anymore, but you get it) because the framework is getting sorted out (like adding more NPCs), and I used to be waiting to see if there are more new hooks into the exe (like expanding player graphics or the amount of players, or adding new fonts). For example, Game Maker Studio has a way of programming I like more, such as the individual custom objects being editable separately (basically, if you could reference an API instead of putting all your code in the lunalua file because you can't ensure that everyone has your api in their api folder). Of course it's not any actual problem with the LunaLua developers. I just hope you get that there could be reasons like that, such as LunaLua being constantly evolving and waiting for it to settle down, or not liking some of the ways LunaLua works, that don't have to deal with pure laziness.

P.S. Like I said I'm not comparing SMBX+Lua to anything any more. I accidentally angered snoruntpyro by keeping comparing the two before I realized nowadays that LunaLua is just free and a hobby thing that shouldn't be judged. So, please don't think that this post is an attack on the project or you.

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Re: SMBX 2.0 Beta 3

Postby Horikawa Otane » Mon Dec 12, 2016 1:59 am

timocomsmbx2345 wrote:
Jayce 777 wrote:
PixelPest wrote:Patience young Padawan. They can't do everything at once
Who?
Actually, that isn't important. Anyway, LunaLUA can accomplish pretty much anything.
I still need experience, but It is superior to events.
even everything i just said?
Replicating the 38A NPCs is easy. It's one reason 2.0 plans to support 38A levels at some point.

Once the array is expanded (Rednaxela is working on this), getting those NPCs developed will be trivial. Heck, we could develop them now, but we want to make them placeable alongside any other NPC.
FanofSMBX wrote: I used to be waiting to see if there are more new hooks into the exe (like expanding player graphics or the amount of players, or adding new fonts).

-----------------------------------
For example, Game Maker Studio has a way of programming I like more, such as the individual custom objects being editable separately (basically, if you could reference an API instead of putting all your code in the lunalua file because you can't ensure that everyone has your api in their api folder).
1) We have expanded player graphics? Both Megaman and Klonoa have expanded sprites with custom frames.
2) We have expanded the number of player characters. Obviously...? You can even write your own and define them for your episode using the existing API hooks.
3) We have support for custom fonts - see textblox. Or heck, just see this level, which both uses custom fonts and display methods.
4) I have no idea what anything below the "---" even means. We have a rather well developed API system. You can develop your own APIs, submit them for inclusion in 2.0 (see Megaluavania, pipe cannons, etc), or keep them in your episode/level folder and distribute alongside your episode/level. Mega Man is an API, Wario is an API, Bony Beetle is an API, Boo Circle is an API, etc, etc. There's zillions of them.

NONE of these are recent developments, so I have no idea how long you've been 'waiting.' APIs have existed since LunaLua's original release, textblox has existed in some form since MaGL X2, the hooks required to make new player characters have existed since before MaGL X2, and the tech to add frames to player sprites has existed since the original release. So we're talking all of this tech existing for over a year now.

It seems to me like you've just been too lazy to do the research if this is what you've been waiting on? So I'd say it still boils down to laziness.

I don't know what to tell you. I can't make you learn. I can't inject knowledge into your brain. If I could, I would. Take a half hour - pick it up. Join the codehaus discord, talk to people, ask questions, make threads - learn. Or wait until we make the 'for dummies' code generator systems in the editor. Don't dress up your laziness as anything but laziness though.

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Re: SMBX 2.0 Beta 3

Postby Cedur » Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:46 am

In timo's defense and as FanofSMBX said, and because I feel the very same, if you have been used to using only features that are directly included into the LDer (read: using no tools separated from the LDer, such as a scripting language), then these "foreign" tools will automatically appear intimidating to you. This is not making any statement on if it's easy or hard to learn the new tool, it just takes some overcoming to extend your horizon.
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Re: SMBX 2.0 Beta 3

Postby FanofSMBX » Mon Dec 12, 2016 10:10 am

Horikawa Otane wrote:
timocomsmbx2345 wrote:
Jayce 777 wrote: Who?
Actually, that isn't important. Anyway, LunaLUA can accomplish pretty much anything.
I still need experience, but It is superior to events.
even everything i just said?
Replicating the 38A NPCs is easy. It's one reason 2.0 plans to support 38A levels at some point.

Once the array is expanded (Rednaxela is working on this), getting those NPCs developed will be trivial. Heck, we could develop them now, but we want to make them placeable alongside any other NPC.
FanofSMBX wrote: I used to be waiting to see if there are more new hooks into the exe (like expanding player graphics or the amount of players, or adding new fonts).

-----------------------------------
For example, Game Maker Studio has a way of programming I like more, such as the individual custom objects being editable separately (basically, if you could reference an API instead of putting all your code in the lunalua file because you can't ensure that everyone has your api in their api folder).
1) We have expanded player graphics? Both Megaman and Klonoa have expanded sprites with custom frames.
2) We have expanded the number of player characters. Obviously...? You can even write your own and define them for your episode using the existing API hooks.
3) We have support for custom fonts - see textblox. Or heck, just see this level, which both uses custom fonts and display methods.
4) I have no idea what anything below the "---" even means. We have a rather well developed API system. You can develop your own APIs, submit them for inclusion in 2.0 (see Megaluavania, pipe cannons, etc), or keep them in your episode/level folder and distribute alongside your episode/level. Mega Man is an API, Wario is an API, Bony Beetle is an API, Boo Circle is an API, etc, etc. There's zillions of them.

NONE of these are recent developments, so I have no idea how long you've been 'waiting.' APIs have existed since LunaLua's original release, textblox has existed in some form since MaGL X2, the hooks required to make new player characters have existed since before MaGL X2, and the tech to add frames to player sprites has existed since the original release. So we're talking all of this tech existing for over a year now.

It seems to me like you've just been too lazy to do the research if this is what you've been waiting on? So I'd say it still boils down to laziness.

I don't know what to tell you. I can't make you learn. I can't inject knowledge into your brain. If I could, I would. Take a half hour - pick it up. Join the codehaus discord, talk to people, ask questions, make threads - learn. Or wait until we make the 'for dummies' code generator systems in the editor. Don't dress up your laziness as anything but laziness though.
On 1. and 2., I meant increasing the size from 100x100, and having more than 5 player characters. I'm sorry that I got the examples wrong otherwise, but this ties in with what I'm fixing to say. I moved on from SMBX, so I haven't felt the need to research any more. I was just using them as examples of non lazy stuff. I'm glad to see the suggestions you made, though. Oh, and about the API stuff, I thought it wasn't possible to write your own api AND bundle it with your level without making the player manually install it. Was I wrong on that?
P.S. You seem a little tense. I have to admit I didn't do my research, and I'm sorry. I know this probably isn't going to sound like what really happened, but when I said "I'm worried that there's going to be a separation of programming-capable and -incapable users", that's really what I meant, and I was just asking you and other 2.0 devs' input on that statement, such as whether that was a valid thing to think, and if you guys thought it to be something that could and should be dealt with. I wasn't trying to imply that Lua was a bad thing to use. I'm sorry to ask these questions without thinking through the implications of what I was saying before posting.

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Re: SMBX 2.0 Beta 3

Postby Electriking » Mon Dec 12, 2016 11:17 am

FanofSMBX wrote:I moved on from SMBX
And you are still a fan of it? :P
FanofSMBX wrote:Oh, and about the API stuff, I thought it wasn't possible to write your own api AND bundle it with your level without making the player manually install it. Was I wrong on that?
Yes. You only need to put the APIs needed for your levels/episodes in the GFX/episode folder.
FanofSMBX wrote: "I'm worried that there's going to be a separation of programming-capable and -incapable users", that's really what I meant, and I was just asking you and other 2.0 devs' input on that statement, such as whether that was a valid thing to think, and if you guys thought it to be something that could and should be dealt with
It could be the future of SMBX but if that is the future, it's the future. The dev team, admin, mods and anyone else probably won't be able to do anything about it. I guess the way to deal with it is to let it happen and live with it.
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Re: SMBX 2.0 Beta 3

Postby Hoeloe » Mon Dec 12, 2016 11:26 am

FanofSMBX wrote: On 1. and 2., I meant increasing the size from 100x100, and having more than 5 player characters.
While it's not directly possible to use more than 1000x1000 sheets, it's certainly possible to achieve the same effect as that, albeit with a bit more work. Also, the very fact that 2.0 comes packaged with 18 different characters (and that this is one of the core features) should hint at you that more than 5 characters are possible. Honestly, I don't have an issue with you expressing concerns, but at least do so from an informed perspective and not complete guesswork.

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Re: SMBX 2.0 Beta 3

Postby loop13 » Mon Dec 12, 2016 12:41 pm

Also, I still have a question about the "glide block" that was added. What does it do?
Hello, I make a lot of typos
specific people know my whereabouts though

my wifi is as useful as a brick

im more active on discord

:idea: I'm not (completely) dead; I rarely talk because I usually have nothin to say; I'll talk when I actually have a comment I want to make, or if someone asks me somethin...

nostalgia is a beautiful thing, isn't it?

anything before 2020 is most likely me being a weirdo or an idiot.


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