SMBX2 (2.0 Beta 3)

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Re: SMBX 2.0 Beta 3

Postby FanofSMBX » Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:25 pm

I'm not into SMBX creating anymore, so please trust me when I say that I'm not meaning to be selfish by saying this. However...

If anyone else has played a lot of Super Mario World hacks, then they too have probably noticed that since ASM is really hard to learn, people tend to reuse the same custom props over and over again (See: Mouser, Bomb Throwing Monty Mole, Marine Pop), and it's really noticeable because you can tell they're reused (as they have the same idiosyncrasies every time).

In the future of SMBX, will there also be this dichtomy of the minority who create custom stuff, and the majority who is at their mercy (I don't mean mercy in a cruel sense, but I can't think of another word) to gain it? Like, are prefab resources going to be the best most users can do with LunaLua in the future?

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Re: SMBX 2.0 Beta 3

Postby Imaynotbehere4long » Wed Dec 07, 2016 12:59 pm

FanofSMBX wrote:In the future of SMBX, will there also be this dichtomy of the minority who create custom stuff, and the majority who is at their mercy (I don't mean mercy in a cruel sense, but I can't think of another word) to gain it? Like, are prefab resources going to be the best most users can do with LunaLua in the future?
If I had to guess, I'd say yes. After all, the whole reason to use a level editor is for ease-of-use; if one is willing to put forth the time and effort to learn a programming language, why learn Lua over something more powerful like Unity?
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Re: SMBX 2.0 Beta 3

Postby Enjl » Wed Dec 07, 2016 1:04 pm

Imaynotbehere4long wrote:Why learn Lua over something more powerful like Unity?
Unity is not a programming language OH SNAP
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Re: SMBX 2.0 Beta 3

Postby Imaynotbehere4long » Wed Dec 07, 2016 1:12 pm

Enjl wrote:
Imaynotbehere4long wrote:Why learn Lua over something more powerful like Unity?
Unity is not a programming language OH SNAP
I never said it was OH DOUBLE SNAP
I've decided to cancel SMBXville Under Seige. After my 1st Senior year of college, I realized I wouldn't have enough time to devote to finishing my four-level episode. Apologies to those who cared.
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mechamind wrote:
AeroMatter wrote:People who think "autistic" is an adjective and not a verb.
You autistic some people so much with that statement.
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Spoiler: show
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(includes a Sonic 3D Blast styled level.)
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Re: SMBX 2.0 Beta 3

Postby Electriking » Wed Dec 07, 2016 1:17 pm

Yeah I do see where people come from when they argue against the use of LUA because it can only be used with SMBX and nothing else.
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Re: SMBX 2.0 Beta 3

Postby Enjl » Wed Dec 07, 2016 1:33 pm

King of Eterity wrote:Yeah I do see where people come from when they argue against the use of LUA because it can only be used with SMBX and nothing else.
Lua is a very popular programming language which has been used, for example, for modding in World of Warcraft. There's also a Lua-interpreter for C# meaning you can technically write entire games in Unity using barely anything but Lua. TRIPLE SNAP!
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Re: SMBX 2.0 Beta 3

Postby Electriking » Wed Dec 07, 2016 1:56 pm

Enjl wrote:
King of Eterity wrote:Yeah I do see where people come from when they argue against the use of LUA because it can only be used with SMBX and nothing else.
Lua is a very popular programming language which has been used, for example, for modding in World of Warcraft. There's also a Lua-interpreter for C# meaning you can technically write entire games in Unity using barely anything but Lua. TRIPLE SNAP!
LunaLua however seems to be an SMBX thing.
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Re: SMBX 2.0 Beta 3

Postby underFlo » Wed Dec 07, 2016 2:07 pm

But LunaLua is based off, as the name implies, the programming language Lua, and really there's not all that much stuff you learn when programming with LunaLua that you can't use in other programming languages or engines like Unity.
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Re: SMBX 2.0 Beta 3

Postby Enjl » Wed Dec 07, 2016 2:07 pm

King of Eterity wrote:
Enjl wrote:
King of Eterity wrote:Yeah I do see where people come from when they argue against the use of LUA because it can only be used with SMBX and nothing else.
Lua is a very popular programming language which has been used, for example, for modding in World of Warcraft. There's also a Lua-interpreter for C# meaning you can technically write entire games in Unity using barely anything but Lua. TRIPLE SNAP!
LunaLua however seems to be an SMBX thing.
If you learn LunaLua you're inevitably learning Lua. Lunalua is just a bunch of SMBX-specific functions and APIs. I don't see how there's any hint of an argument to be made against its use.
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Re: SMBX 2.0 Beta 3

Postby Hoeloe » Wed Dec 07, 2016 2:32 pm

King of Eterity wrote: LunaLua however seems to be an SMBX thing.
In the same way that if you learn Unity, you learn C#, with Unity's wrappers. If you learn LunaLua, you learn Lua, with the SMBX wrappers. You're no less learning the language, you're just also learning some hooks to apply it in a specific way. With a scripting language, you will always have to learn a scripting interface to apply it to the system you want to use. That's just how scripting languages work.

In this way, it's SUBSTANTIALLY better to use something like LunaLua than SMBX Autocode or Teascript.vbs, since those are custom designed languages, and have no applications outside SMBX at all.

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Re: SMBX 2.0 Beta 3

Postby FanofSMBX » Wed Dec 07, 2016 2:49 pm

Oh, Hoeloe, could you please answer my question in my last post, since you're one of the main 2.0 devs? You and Horikawa's opinions would be very welcome.

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My graphics pack!
Supporting forums:

Spoiler: show
SMBX Galaxy forum by Pivot40Channel
http://smbxgalaxy.prophpbb.com/
Come to the SMBX+ forums by illias3000. There is a whole forum category dedicated to the boss rush series with official rushes, submit bosses, and fan boss rushes! It is still open but AirSeus Forums is now open:
http://nsmbx.prophpbb.com/
AirSeus Forums the new home of the Boss Rush series:
http://smbxairseusforums.prophpbb.com/
Spoiler: show
First to discover:
Spark
Eerie
Grinder
Rainbow Shell
Birdo
Boom Boom
Image
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Re: SMBX 2.0 Beta 3

Postby Imaynotbehere4long » Wed Dec 07, 2016 2:53 pm

Enjl wrote:Lua is a very popular programming language
Hoeloe wrote:it's SUBSTANTIALLY better to use something like LunaLua than SMBX Autocode or Teascript.vbs
You seem to be misunderstanding us (or at least me).

Although Lua is a popular programming language and is better than certain other languages, the fact remains that it is a programming language in the first place and therefore lacks the ease-of-use that a premade level editor has. If one is willing to put in the time and effort to learn Lua, LunaLua, or any programming language, said person most likely wouldn't want to limit his/her audience to the SMBX community and would move on to something more versatile/powerful, which is what I was getting at when I responded to FanofSMBX. Let me try to simplify it:

LEVEL EDITOR:
BENEFIT: ease of use
DRAWBACK: limited options, can only reach fans of said level editor

PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE:
BENEFIT: versatile, can reach anyone who owns a PC (or whatever system is being programmed for)
DRAWBACK: requires much more time and effort to learn than a level editor.

In other words, learning/using Lua just to make more unique SMBX levels results in the worst of both worlds, so there won't be much overlap. In conclusion, I believe FanofSMBX's prediction about the future of the SMBX fanbase is correct, and there isn't much that can be done to prevent it.
I've decided to cancel SMBXville Under Seige. After my 1st Senior year of college, I realized I wouldn't have enough time to devote to finishing my four-level episode. Apologies to those who cared.
My favorite quote on the entire forum:
Spoiler: show
mechamind wrote:
AeroMatter wrote:People who think "autistic" is an adjective and not a verb.
You autistic some people so much with that statement.
My SMBX portfolio:
Spoiler: show
Image
(includes a Sonic 3D Blast styled level.)
SOMEONE ANSWER MY CRY FOR HELP: http://www.supermariobrosx.org/forums/v ... =69&t=2026

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Re: SMBX 2.0 Beta 3

Postby Pseudo » Wed Dec 07, 2016 5:13 pm

FanofSMBX wrote:In the future of SMBX, will there also be this dichtomy of the minority who create custom stuff, and the majority who is at their mercy (I don't mean mercy in a cruel sense, but I can't think of another word) to gain it? Like, are prefab resources going to be the best most users can do with LunaLua in the future?
Probably, and I don't see anything wrong with this to be honest. That's one of the advantages of using a level-editor instead of creating your own game.
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Re: SMBX 2.0 Beta 3

Postby Inspirited » Fri Dec 09, 2016 4:15 pm

I have problems with testing levels with PGE. So apparently there are 3 ways to test a level. "Test Level <Alpha>", "Test a saved file" and "LunaTester -> Run Testing F5".

"LunaTester -> Run Testing F5" seems to use the SMBX engine. It works, but every time I want to test it has to load for around 1 minute. That's extremely annoying.

"Test Level <Alpha>" starts a PGE alpha build. It loads a lot faster than LunaTester, but I don't know how to change my controls in this one. There's also weird things happening. For example, I put a fire flower in a block and in SMBX I get a mushroom from the block, as expected. In this alpha build however, a fire flower comes out of the block. Why??

"Test a saved file" also uses a PGE alpha build, but with this option I always start inside the ground, trapped and unable to do anything.

:/
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Re: SMBX 2.0 Beta 3

Postby PixelPest » Fri Dec 09, 2016 4:20 pm

LunaTester is what you should be using. It only takes 30 seconds or so to load for me and that delay is only for the first time you open up the editor after having it closed. After that it opens testing immediately. The other two testing options are WIP parts of the PGE project and are just for experimental purposes

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Re: SMBX 2.0 Beta 3

Postby Horikawa Otane » Sat Dec 10, 2016 8:35 pm

FanofSMBX wrote:I'm not into SMBX creating anymore, so please trust me when I say that I'm not meaning to be selfish by saying this. However...

If anyone else has played a lot of Super Mario World hacks, then they too have probably noticed that since ASM is really hard to learn, people tend to reuse the same custom props over and over again (See: Mouser, Bomb Throwing Monty Mole, Marine Pop), and it's really noticeable because you can tell they're reused (as they have the same idiosyncrasies every time).

In the future of SMBX, will there also be this dichtomy of the minority who create custom stuff, and the majority who is at their mercy (I don't mean mercy in a cruel sense, but I can't think of another word) to gain it? Like, are prefab resources going to be the best most users can do with LunaLua in the future?
LunaLua is incredibly simple. Especially compared to Asm. If people don't learn it (at least at a basic level), they're mostly lazy.

Lua is also used extensively outside of SMBX - if you learn to use LunaLua, it isn't a stretch to learn to take that knowledge to Garry's Mod, World of Warcraft, Minecraft, and hundreds of other games. It's one of the "extension languages of choice" so to speak. This is very useful for people who enjoy designing levels for, or modding in, video games. Its syntax is also very similar to tons of other modern languages (JavaScript, Python, etc) - so it's just a really friendly stepping stone to learning to code in general, particularly given how easy it is.

There's also the Tweaks system in Beta 3 and we plan to make a lot of LunaLua API features auto-generated via a GUI in PGE for people who would prefer not to learn new things.

I don't really care if it creates a "dichtomy" [sic] - I'm not going to remove features to make some people who don't want to learn code as simple as "player.character = CHARACTER_MARIO" or "player.powerup = PLAYER_BIG" comfortable. I mean, look at how simple this is.

Frankly? In a lot of ways LunaLua is easier than Events, so you could make the same argument there. It's infinitely more complex to make a cool custom boss with Events than LunaLua - I personally wouldn't even know where to begin. Heck, when I (rarely) make levels these days, I literally don't even use events because I find LunaLua, on the whole, much easier. Am I "left behind" by events? It's a silly statement.


...And don't PM me to answer your question unless it's a bug report or something. I don't care about these philosophic arguments about the bloody SMBX community. I'm going to keep adding features while maintaining compatibility with the old levels - it doesn't matter to me what the features do the community. If people feel like they're being left behind because they don't want to learn something new, that's not my concern as a dev. Maybe we could do more tutorials I guess (and this IS planned), but outside of that it's beyond my capability to control.

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Re: SMBX 2.0 Beta 3

Postby darkhog » Sat Dec 10, 2016 11:41 pm

Okay, a small PSA: AVG detects virus in SMBX2 (after starting a level. THIS IS A FALSE POSITIVE - no virus there.

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Re: SMBX 2.0 Beta 3

Postby kota_sans » Sun Dec 11, 2016 7:07 am

heya i have MANY problems with my game:
1.when i click play episode it opens the 1.3 launcher (same with testing with lunalua)
2.boo circles,boo snakes and diagonal podoboos are going super fast all over the screen
3.left and right/up and down hovering koopas are just staying in one place
4.(this only happened once) the grid and the "snapping to grid"wasnt at the same place
5.after saving a level the script options gets locked except the 2 lunalua ones but they dont open
6.character blocks dosent do anything except mario,luigi,toad,peach,link
7.in invasion 2 write in "supermario32"and upwards in mario's house go right and hold down and an invisible warp takes the player and the clones to a character test but the clones get knocked out of the stage and teleports the playerto the world map

theese are the ones that i can think of right now
my pc is win xp

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Re: SMBX 2.0 Beta 3

Postby Wohlstand » Sun Dec 11, 2016 7:42 am

"1.when i click play episode it opens the 1.3 launcher (same with testing with lunalua)"
On Windows XP you must use Hexed version (you can take it at official LunaLua repository, but be careful with antiviruses, shut them up or there are can produce false alert, especially Avast, AVG and some others). LunaLoader unfortunately is dumb on Windows XP and can't patch vanilla EXE in memory. Therefore pre-hexed exe is required. Con is antivirus's false positives.
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Re: SMBX 2.0 Beta 3

Postby Hoeloe » Sun Dec 11, 2016 1:49 pm

kota_sans wrote: my pc is win xp
Really this is your problem. There are ways to fix 2.0 for XP, but I would strongly recommend upgrading to at least Windows 7 (it's not expensive to do so).

Please read this page for why having a Windows XP machine is a terrible idea: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/hel ... of-support


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