Legacy vs PGE

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Legacy vs PGE

Postby SparrowWithASword » Sun Jul 26, 2020 2:56 am

A few weeks ago I finally got the guts to make the switch between Legacy and PGE editor, but today I saw some compelling arguments in favor of the Legacy editor, but everyone here seems to be absolutely sure that the PGE editor is better. So I decided to make this thread to start a civilized in-depth debate about the pros and cons of the two versions, and determine which is the superior one.

Remember to please give solid arguments in your posts, I don't want people saying "legacy good, pge bad" or "pge good, legacy bad". Both are good on their own and the purpose of this thread is to discuss which one of the two is better for SMBX as a whole.

PGE
Pros
  • 1. More stuff.

    2. User friendly editor.

    3. More playable characters.

    4. Mario Challenge.

    5. LunaLua support.

    6. Plenty of great things on the editor like an undo button, the option to delete various objects at the same time, and a more detailed handbook.

    7. Compatible with most episodes.

    8. Better optimization.
Cons
  • 1. New characters control like ass (like, seriously, I know that the program is in beta, but Rosalina's jump is terrible, Bowser in general feels sluggish, and Uncle Broadsword doesn't really change when getting powerups).

    2. The editor can get a little confusing at times.

    3. Some of the new objects feel a little unecessary or lackluster, like the butterfly wiggler thing from Yoshi's Island.

    4.No option to boot directly into the game (I know the purpose of the launcher is to boot you into the episode as soon as posible, but it sucks that you can't access battle mode from it as far as I'm aware).

    5. Slightly confusing saving method on the editor and the game itself.

    6. Testing mode is okay at best, but can get glitchy at times and there is also no real time editor.

    7. Long loading times.
Legacy
Pros
  • 1. Editor is simple and straight forward, very easy to learn and use.

    2. Episodes made with this versions are mostly compatible with any other version.

    3. Feels much more polished than SMBX2.

    4. This is a completed version of the game. I want to clarify that this is not something bad for SMBX2, as I said earlier, SMBX2 is still in beta and it has a long way to go.

    5. Easier way to implement events and warps.

    6. Cleaner aesthetics.

    7. Short loading times.
Cons
  • 1. Old and outdated.

    2. Missing some things on the editor like erasing many things at once.

    3. Less content overall.

    4. Hard to code things into the game due to lesser LunaLua support.

    5. Resolution locked at around 1280x720.

    6. Slightly unoptimized.

    7. Fewer selection of items.

    8. Slightly confusing NPC behaviour (like generators or event triggers).
Last edited by SparrowWithASword on Sun Jul 26, 2020 4:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
Don't be afraid to make the switch to SMBX2, and don't feel pressured if you wish to not do it. Take my word for it, for I am just another casual user.

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Re: Legacy vs PGE

Postby KingBowser24 » Sun Jul 26, 2020 3:07 am

Ive been using the Legacy Editor since 2010 (before the original version got shut down, ha) And I just like it because im used to it.

Ive tried out the PGE and found it somewhat confusing, although I do think it has some serious potential to be awesome. But i dont know. If I happen to get back into SMBX again (its been a good while since ive really done anything with it) Ill probably stick to Legacy, but may look more into PGE after some time.

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Re: Legacy vs PGE

Postby Enjl » Sun Jul 26, 2020 3:10 am

You're conflating PGE and SMBX2 it seems. PGE is just the editor we use. Gonna react to some points I am or you seem to be confused on.
SparrowWithASword wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 2:56 am
1. New characters control like ass (like, seriously, I know that the program is in beta, but Rosalina's jump is terrible, Bowser in general feels sluggish, and Uncle Broadsword doesn't really change when getting powerups).
This is a criticism of SMBX2, not PGE, for instance. I totally agree. I like Wario and Uncle Broadsword. Powerups kinda suck in general in my view so I don't mind him changing little.
SparrowWithASword wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 2:56 am
3. Missing things from previous versions like the Billy Gun.
SparrowWithASword wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 2:56 am
6. Has a bunch more items that are not in SMBX2, like the aforementioned Billy Gun.
SMBX2 is based directly on SMBX 1.3. Billy Gun was moved to the Misc. section in the tilesets. We haven't removed anything from 1.3
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SparrowWithASword wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 2:56 am
Some of the new objects feel a little unecessary or lackluster, like the butterfly wiggler thing from Yoshi's Island.
Ideas on how to improve them would be good. I think flutter is definitely better an enemy than the dozens of walkers in 1.3 basegame.
SparrowWithASword wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 2:56 am
5. No option to boot directly into the game (I know the purpose of the launcher is to boot you into the episode as soon as posible, but it sucks that you can't access battle mode from it as far as I'm aware).
Battle mode will return in the future. We haven't gotten around to it yet because there are still various multiplayer-related issues that we aim to sort out in the next patch. And yeah, launcher is better for booting into episode because it's easier to track your progress over sessions that way. Also, just in case you're worried about clogging up your save slots: we have infinite save slots per episode as of beta 4.
SparrowWithASword wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 2:56 am
6. Slightly confusing saving method on the editor and the game itself.
Please elaborate. From what I can tell, CTRL + S saves just like in all normal programs.
SparrowWithASword wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 2:56 am
7. Testing mode is okay at best, but can get glitchy at times and there is also no real time editor.
What kind of glitches? Do you have error messages to share? I don't recall encountering any. Also, lack of realtime editor is a gain in realtime editING, allowing you to adjust setups in the background while playing. I don't know the general stance on that feature, but I've found it much more useful.
SparrowWithASword wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 2:56 am
8. Long loading times.
Depends heavily on computer. We have some pretty good loading tricks to migitate the load times. The first load will be long, but elements re-used between loads aren't unloaded so subsequent loads will be shorter. There's more nuance to it, but I've seen the load times going from like 8 seconds on low-end pcs to half a second (sometimes faster than 1.3 despite the massively higher amount of content) on high-end pcs.
SparrowWithASword wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 2:56 am
1. Editor is simple and straight forward, very easy to learn and use.
Disagree. Editing anything after placing it is a pain and it's a chore to put levels together. Lag of multi-select also makes everything very slow.
Easy to learn? Sure.
SparrowWithASword wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 2:56 am
3. Feels much more polished than SMBX2.
SparrowWithASword wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 2:56 am
7. Cleaner aesthetics.
Elaborate.
SparrowWithASword wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 2:56 am
5. Easier way to implement events and warps.
This is an opinion.
Ideas are useless if you can't make them real.
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Re: Legacy vs PGE

Postby SparrowWithASword » Sun Jul 26, 2020 4:00 am

Enjl wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 3:10 am
This is a criticism of SMBX2, not PGE, for instance. I totally agree. I like Wario and Uncle Broadsword. Powerups kinda suck in general in my view so I don't mind him changing little.
And you would be correct. I should have named the thread "1.3 vs 2.0" considering that I also wanted to talk about the games themselves.
Enjl wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 3:10 am
SMBX2 is based directly on SMBX 1.3. Billy Gun was moved to the Misc. section in the tilesets. We haven't removed anything from 1.3
That was my mistake, so I will delete that point from the list as soon as I finish replying to you.
Enjl wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 3:10 am
Ideas on how to improve them would be good. I think flutter is definitely better an enemy than the dozens of walkers in 1.3 basegame.
I will elaborate on this later, but I feel like in the case of flutter the movement feels a little basic. But it's fine, I understand where you are coming from. A lot of new NPCs are actually pretty nice.
Enjl wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 3:10 am
Battle mode will return in the future. We haven't gotten around to it yet because there are still various multiplayer-related issues that we aim to sort out in the next patch. And yeah, launcher is better for booting into episode because it's easier to track your progress over sessions that way. Also, just in case you're worried about clogging up your save slots: we have infinite save slots per episode as of beta 4.
Oh, ok. That's understandable.
Enjl wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 3:10 am
Please elaborate. From what I can tell, CTRL + S saves just like in all normal programs.
It's actually quite a nitpick considering it only happened once (hence why the "slightly confusing") but it's not about the act of saving itself but the directories. There are two directories for worlds, one of which is automatically selected the first time you save. To be fair, it's easy to know which is the one that works, I am just not sure what is the purpose of the other one.
Enjl wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 3:10 am
What kind of glitches? Do you have error messages to share? I don't recall encountering any. Also, lack of realtime editor is a gain in realtime editING, allowing you to adjust setups in the background while playing. I don't know the general stance on that feature, but I've found it much more useful.
There was this one time where the loading screen got stuck on restart and after around 5 minutes (the average wait in my PC for loading a level is 20 seconds, at most 40 seconds and at less 10 seconds) I had to close the program with Task manager since it wasn't closing by itself. The real time editor thing I guess just comes down to personal preference. I guess not being able to spawn a billy gun but being able to begin tests in warps and checkpoints is fine.
Enjl wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 3:10 am
Depends heavily on computer. We have some pretty good loading tricks to migitate the load times. The first load will be long, but elements re-used between loads aren't unloaded so subsequent loads will be shorter. There's more nuance to it, but I've seen the load times going from like 8 seconds on low-end pcs to half a second (sometimes faster than 1.3 despite the massively higher amount of content) on high-end pcs.
The average loading time for the editor on my PC is around 25 seconds which isn't actually long but still longer than what you say can be the load time on certain low-end computers, but sometimes it's around a minute even after being reloaded. It's probably because of my PC, which is like mid-end, so maybe it's my own machine. So I guess this is not an objective flaw as well, I apologize.
Enjl wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 3:10 am
Disagree. Editing anything after placing it is a pain and it's a chore to put levels together. Lag of multi-select also makes everything very slow.
Easy to learn? Sure.
I find it more comfortable to pick up items and still have a copy of that item selected in case I want to place it somewhere else. But you are right, there is some multi-select lag altough I personally haven't felt much hinderance from it (sorry for bad english).
SparrowWithASword wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 2:56 am
3. Feels much more polished than SMBX2.
I mean, yeah...
But to your credit SMBX2 is still in beta so eh
Enjl wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 3:10 am
Elaborate.
Some of the new sprites, in particular the new character sprites and the NSMB enemy sprites look kinda ugly. The editor's interface also looks a little bland but not as clean as the legacy editor. I do like the pixelated icons for warps, player start points, etc. They look cool.
Enjl wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 3:10 am
This is an opinion.
I guess it is, I'm not sure.

You made me realize my post was kind of a mess, and I apologize. Like I said, the point of this thread was not to devaluate the work done on SMBX2, so I want to thank you for the constructive criticism of my own criticism.
Last edited by SparrowWithASword on Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Don't be afraid to make the switch to SMBX2, and don't feel pressured if you wish to not do it. Take my word for it, for I am just another casual user.

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Re: Legacy vs PGE

Postby Cedur » Sun Jul 26, 2020 6:12 am

I never get why people complain about PGE being complicated when they can hover their mouse over every icon and get a quick explanation.

I also never get how people get along with the terrible selection mechanism of the old editor. 38A editor also has it, and making a level with it was a pain in the ass.

Your PGE pro 6) already summarizes my own thoughts linked in my signature.

Placing and managing warps is definitely harder in 1.3 than in PGE. In PGE you have an overlook overy every warp and you can easily manage it without interfering with the other ones. However if you move some warp in 1.3, especially across different sections (which requires temporarily deleting parts of the warp), the numbers are confused all the way. It sucks.

Also maybe elaborate on what you don't like about specific new SMBX2 NPCs. You don't need to use them anyway, and in the old editor they just don't exist.
Also I think saving methods are the same.
Why is PGE testing glitchy? I get that you can't edit and test simultaneously (though I remember I also slipped up accidentally with this while testing in 38A), however PGE testing has a good menu that allows you to start from any spot you like and also change your equipment within the same testing session.

Long loading times ... relatable, but why make such a big deal of it?

In short, I say there are no pro's at all for 1.3. Unless you unfortunately can't run SMBX2 on your PC.
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Re: Legacy vs PGE

Postby teh_supar_hackr » Sun Jul 26, 2020 11:53 pm

Me personally unless I'm doing something in SMBX 2.x (which I haven't done yet), I use the legacy editor for general SMBX projects for the best compatibility with other versions, and for the kind of people who don't want to switch to 2.x. On occasion I've used the PGE editor, but not too much because of those cons you've mentioned, and I can't play test it within the editor nearly as well as in legacy editor, and I like to play test stages often when I'm making them.

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Re: Legacy vs PGE

Postby Cedur » Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:38 am

teh_supar_hackr wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 11:53 pm
Me personally unless I'm doing something in SMBX 2.x (which I haven't done yet), I use the legacy editor for general SMBX projects for the best compatibility with other versions, and for the kind of people who don't want to switch to 2.x. On occasion I've used the PGE editor, but not too much because of those cons you've mentioned, and I can't play test it within the editor nearly as well as in legacy editor, and I like to play test stages often when I'm making them.

Do you know how to test correctly in PGE? (use the lunatester, press F5)
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Re: Legacy vs PGE

Postby SparrowWithASword » Mon Jul 27, 2020 4:48 pm

Cedur wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:38 am
Do you know how to test correctly in PGE? (use the lunatester, press F5)
I think he is refering to the lack of real time editor.

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Cedur wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 6:12 am
I never get why people complain about PGE being complicated when they can hover their mouse over every icon and get a quick explanation.
It's not editing itself, it's just that coming from 1.3 or 38A it gets confusing because of the different interface. To your credit, though, PGE is really easy to use once you figure out how things work.
Cedur wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 6:12 am
I also never get how people get along with the terrible selection mechanism of the old editor. 38A editor also has it, and making a level with it was a pain in the ass.
Some people like the "copy" mechanism of the Legacy editor. I think it doesn't work as well as like, for example, what Mario Maker did, but it can work depending on how well you feel about it. The selection mechanism in PGE is better except for having to right click to modify properties. It's not that big of a deal, but it's more comfortable to simply have the properties window pop up by itself.
Cedur wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 6:12 am
Placing and managing warps is definitely harder in 1.3 than in PGE. In PGE you have an overlook overy every warp and you can easily manage it without interfering with the other ones. However if you move some warp in 1.3, especially across different sections (which requires temporarily deleting parts of the warp), the numbers are confused all the way. It sucks.
I agree that the warp mechanism is harder, but the thing is that it's more easy to understand in the Legacy editor. Not like the PGE warps are rocket science, of course not, like everything in the editor, it requires learning.
Cedur wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 6:12 am
Also maybe elaborate on what you don't like about specific new SMBX2 NPCs. You don't need to use them anyway, and in the old editor they just don't exist.
They feel simple or unnecesary. You are right, I don't need to use them, but if the purpose of PGE is to simplify level creation when the Legacy editor does the job just fine, there isn't as much of an incentive to use the PGE editor. Note that I don't think all new NPCs are bad. The tantrum pig is pretty cool and I'm glad we can now use stuff from Mario Maker like bumpers and skewers.
Cedur wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 6:12 am
Also I think saving methods are the same.
It is, my confusion stems from seemingly multiple save directories.
Cedur wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 6:12 am
Why is PGE testing glitchy? I get that you can't edit and test simultaneously (though I remember I also slipped up accidentally with this while testing in 38A), however PGE testing has a good menu that allows you to start from any spot you like and also change your equipment within the same testing session.
It's not broken by any means, but it sometimes doesn't closes when closing the window, takes too much time to load, or spawns your character at weird positions when opening another level.
Cedur wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 6:12 am
Long loading times ... relatable, but why make such a big deal of it?
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Cedur wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 6:12 am
In short, I say there are no pro's at all for 1.3. Unless you unfortunately can't run SMBX2 on your PC.
I mean, I get where you are coming from, but the Legacy editor still holds up on some regards and PGE along with SMBX2 should be used if you want more content available or an easier time making custom NPCs. At the end of the day both are literally the same thing when boiled down to the code itself, and the reason I made this thread was because I find myself more comfortable with PGE but there are people who don't even seem to have SMBX2 as a whole installed, and I also have some compatibility concerns since I really want people to play my episodes once I start releasing them.
Don't be afraid to make the switch to SMBX2, and don't feel pressured if you wish to not do it. Take my word for it, for I am just another casual user.

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Re: Legacy vs PGE

Postby Hoeloe » Mon Jul 27, 2020 7:47 pm

SparrowWithASword wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:43 pm
It's not broken by any means, but it sometimes doesn't closes when closing the window, takes too much time to load, or spawns your character at weird positions when opening another level.
So, aside from a lot of other very weird points that I won't get into (like how more NPCs somehow makes the editor worse?) I suspect this is because you're not paying attention to what you're doing. The way the testing system works is like this:

When you test a level for the first time, it loads up the engine, and starts your level. This can take some time because it has to load the entire engine to do this. However, once this is done, the engine stays loaded. Closing the testing window simply freezes the game and puts the engine as a background process. The next time you test the level, the engine is brought back to the foreground and your level reloaded - this is much faster than loading the entire engine again, and usually only takes a couple of seconds. The first test can take a while to load, but subsequent tests are fast. The idea behind this is that on average, loading times are short.

As for "sometimes spawns your character at weird positions", I strongly suspect this is not the case, and either you're accidentally messing with the "spawn location" setting (that allows you to start the level from any warp or checkpoint for debug purposes), or you're testing with levels that don't have their starting point properly set up.

I'll be honest, pretty much every "con" you've listed has been "I'm used to the legacy editor", and there's nothing wrong with that, but I think you should seriously consider that just because you're used to it doesn't make it better. In all honesty, I found PGE much easier to learn the the legacy editor, because it obeys more general software standards and doesn't have a million windows with different settings tucked away under obscure labels. It has basic features like undo and copy and paste which are missing in the legacy editor, and the marquee selection system is a standard method of interacting with graphical interfaces. I believe there's even a tool in PGE that works similarly to the original legacy pointer if that's your thing.

Fact is, this thread reads like you just picked up PGE, pressed buttons in it for 5 minutes, and declared that you prefer the legacy editor that you've been using for years. Any new tool takes time to learn, but PGE is far easier to learn than you're making out. That's not to say PGE is flawless, it has problems of course, but amusingly you haven't listed any of the actual issues with it, and instead have just listed a bunch of things you prefer about the legacy editor (despite them mostly being more awkward) just because you're used to them.

Also there aren't "multiple save directories". There's a "worlds" folder in the install, just like in 1.3.

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Re: Legacy vs PGE

Postby teh_supar_hackr » Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:25 pm

Cedur wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:38 am
teh_supar_hackr wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 11:53 pm
Me personally unless I'm doing something in SMBX 2.x (which I haven't done yet), I use the legacy editor for general SMBX projects for the best compatibility with other versions, and for the kind of people who don't want to switch to 2.x. On occasion I've used the PGE editor, but not too much because of those cons you've mentioned, and I can't play test it within the editor nearly as well as in legacy editor, and I like to play test stages often when I'm making them.

Do you know how to test correctly in PGE? (use the lunatester, press F5)
I did'int know that, though I'll proboblly stick with the legacy editor for now.

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Re: Legacy vs PGE

Postby Cedur » Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:20 am

SparrowWithASword wrote:To your credit, though, PGE is really easy to use once you figure out how things work.

Yeah and I think once you're fully used to PGE you don't want to go back.

The big problem in 1.3 is that when you select an already placed item to alter its properties, you can't leave it in place.
Erasing is a big risk of trouble bc there's no undo.
Regarding layers, if you don't pay attention you might forget to activate a layer you want to place objects in, or forget to deactivate the layer so you place objects in it without wanting to. PGE easily allows you to put already placed objects into layers via right-click.

Also the new NPCs fill many gaps from SMW, SMB2 or SMM so that's simply a huge benefit.

Besides, if you have compatibility concerns, there's still a possibility of making levels in PGE and saving them in .lvl format instead of .lvlx.

If people say you have no trouble for yourself with the editor, fine, I just don't understand it.
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Re: Legacy vs PGE

Postby Idunn » Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:23 am

The biggest con for 1.3 is missing aka the filling option.
That screwed up so many people.
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Re: Legacy vs PGE

Postby SparrowWithASword » Tue Jul 28, 2020 4:56 pm

Cedur wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:20 am
Besides, if you have compatibility concerns, there's still a possibility of making levels in PGE and saving them in .lvl format instead of .lvlx.
That's the thing, just to test out if PGE levels worked in 1.3, I loaded up one of the completed levels that I have been working on in my episode, and it gave me some sort of failure related to probably some semi solid platforms I placed somewhere.
Don't be afraid to make the switch to SMBX2, and don't feel pressured if you wish to not do it. Take my word for it, for I am just another casual user.

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Re: Legacy vs PGE

Postby Hoeloe » Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:50 pm

SparrowWithASword wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 4:56 pm
Cedur wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:20 am
Besides, if you have compatibility concerns, there's still a possibility of making levels in PGE and saving them in .lvl format instead of .lvlx.
That's the thing, just to test out if PGE levels worked in 1.3, I loaded up one of the completed levels that I have been working on in my episode, and it gave me some sort of failure related to probably some semi solid platforms I placed somewhere.
Stuff made in SMBX2 will likely not work in 1.3 simply because new content doesn't exist in 1.3. Any NPC with an ID higher than 292 will not work in 1.3, because they just didn't exist then. Similarly, a lot of blocks won't work, a lot of BGOs won't work, the ingame limits are a lot more stringent, background.txt files will do nothing, .png files can't be used for graphic replacements for 1.3, etc. etc.

SMBX2 retains backwards compatibility, meaning levels made in 1.3 will happily work perfectly fine in SMBX2. The same is NOT true in reverse.

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Re: Legacy vs PGE

Postby SparrowWithASword » Tue Jul 28, 2020 10:57 pm

Hoeloe wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:50 pm
SparrowWithASword wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 4:56 pm
Cedur wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:20 am
Besides, if you have compatibility concerns, there's still a possibility of making levels in PGE and saving them in .lvl format instead of .lvlx.
That's the thing, just to test out if PGE levels worked in 1.3, I loaded up one of the completed levels that I have been working on in my episode, and it gave me some sort of failure related to probably some semi solid platforms I placed somewhere.
Stuff made in SMBX2 will likely not work in 1.3 simply because new content doesn't exist in 1.3. Any NPC with an ID higher than 292 will not work in 1.3, because they just didn't exist then. Similarly, a lot of blocks won't work, a lot of BGOs won't work, the ingame limits are a lot more stringent, background.txt files will do nothing, .png files can't be used for graphic replacements for 1.3, etc. etc.

SMBX2 retains backwards compatibility, meaning levels made in 1.3 will happily work perfectly fine in SMBX2. The same is NOT true in reverse.
Makes sense, then.
Don't be afraid to make the switch to SMBX2, and don't feel pressured if you wish to not do it. Take my word for it, for I am just another casual user.

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Re: Legacy vs PGE

Postby Super Wario Bros » Wed Jul 29, 2020 1:25 am

Idunn wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:23 am
The biggest con for 1.3 is missing aka the filling option.
That screwed up so many people.
Yeah. I used to use the fill button all the time, until that fateful day I forgot to place 1 tile. The entire level was ruined, and with no undo button I spent 20 minutes erasing every block. Glad it is straight up gone in SMBX2.

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Re: Legacy vs PGE

Postby Enjl » Wed Jul 29, 2020 2:16 am

Super Wario Bros wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 1:25 am
Glad it is straight up gone in SMBX2.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding but SMBX2 still has the fill tool. It has countermeasures for filling everything, though, and with the undo button the problem becomes a non-issue. I find the box-fill-tool more useful myself, though.
Ignore if you initially meant that "the problem" was straight up gone rather than the "fill tool option". Just wanted to clarify in case someone else misunderstood.
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Re: Legacy vs PGE

Postby Cedur » Wed Jul 29, 2020 4:10 am

SparrowWithASword wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 4:56 pm
Cedur wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:20 am
Besides, if you have compatibility concerns, there's still a possibility of making levels in PGE and saving them in .lvl format instead of .lvlx.
That's the thing, just to test out if PGE levels worked in 1.3, I loaded up one of the completed levels that I have been working on in my episode, and it gave me some sort of failure related to probably some semi solid platforms I placed somewhere.

Of course I tacitly meant "make it in PGE and only use stuff from 1.3", which includes saving in .lvl format
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Re: Legacy vs PGE

Postby Super Wario Bros » Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:52 am

Enjl wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 2:16 am
Super Wario Bros wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 1:25 am
Glad it is straight up gone in SMBX2.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding but SMBX2 still has the fill tool. It has countermeasures for filling everything, though, and with the undo button the problem becomes a non-issue. I find the box-fill-tool more useful myself, though.
Ignore if you initially meant that "the problem" was straight up gone rather than the "fill tool option". Just wanted to clarify in case someone else misunderstood.
Yes, I was referring to the lack of undo button, no problems!

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Re: Legacy vs PGE

Postby Wohlstand » Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:16 pm

Okay, while I reading this, I have something to tell from me:
SparrowWithASword wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 2:56 am
> 3. More playable characters.
> 4. Mario Challenge.
> 5. LunaLua support.
> 1. New characters control like ass ...
> 3. Some of the new objects feel a little unecessary or lackluster, like the butterfly wiggler thing from Yoshi's Island.
As was told before, these items were related to SMBX2 game, not to PGE Project itself.

SparrowWithASword wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 2:56 am
> 7. Long loading times.
As was told before, that is directly depends on a config pack size and the disk performance (if you have HDD, SSD, or slow/fast computer by itself). SMBX2 gives the biggest config pack for PGE Project, and which an additional reason to increase the loading time.

SparrowWithASword wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 2:56 am
> 4. ... it sucks that you can't access battle mode from it as far as I'm aware).
Since recent time, PGE Editor can launch battle mode with SMBX-38A and TheXTech engines. But still, SMBX2 doesn't support that. At the same time, SMBX2 have a broken two-player game support.

SparrowWithASword wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 2:56 am
> 6. Testing mode is okay at best, but can get glitchy at times ...
In a recent past that was even worse case, however, after I did an internal reorganizing of a whole testing sub-systyem, the lot of problems was gone and the testing now works better even with old SMBX2 Beta3 and the last version of standalone LunaLua-SMBX.

SparrowWithASword wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 2:56 am
> 6. ... is also no real time editor.
PGE Editor by itself has the support for real-time editor since 2015, however, it works with ANY engine but SMBX2:
- PGE Engine supports this since ~2015, the first engine with real-time editor in PGE
- SMBX-38A supports that since recent time when I added integration for it, since 2020
- TheXTech supports that since foundation, in 2020
How it works:
- Run a test in any of 3 engines (PGE, 38A, XTech), use the standalone PGE installation and "SMBX 1.3 Compatible" config pack out of SMBX2
- You'll have the magic-hand to pick-up items in the game directly
- Switch to the editor and click tilesets and palletes in Editor, then, switch back to game and place item into the game directly!

SparrowWithASword wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 2:56 am
> 1. Editor is simple and straight forward, very easy to learn and use.
Look at Enjl's reply. I'll also say, that some parts of it are non-intuitive and confusing like section autoscroll configuring. Because of imperfections, it can't be properly controlled without of guiding.
However, that is a damned user experience: the first thing you got to use is "easy to learn". But in fact, no. You must give both editors to people who never used any of these editors at all to let choose the best one.
So, I think, it's a point if make a poll of sort like "the best editor", make not just two items "legacy vs PGE Editor", make 4 variants: "I used legacy editor before" and "I never used any of these editors at all".
Old users in most will tell that Legacy Editor is better because of user experience and their strong laziness to research the new editor.

SparrowWithASword wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 4:00 am
I find it more comfortable to pick up items and still have a copy of that item selected in case I want to place it somewhere else. But you are right, there is some multi-select lag altough I personally haven't felt much hinderance from it (sorry for bad english).
If you want to pick-up item from the scene/map directly, select it and then press a middle mouse button. If you'll select multiple items and press the middle mouse button: you'll duplicate the whole group: just align it after!

Cedur wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 6:12 am
I never get why people complain about PGE being complicated when they can hover their mouse over every icon and get a quick explanation.
The short explanation of this: the damned user experience. When the interface gets the major difference, users will always get a confusion until they learn a thing better. Look at the difference between MS Office 2003 and 2007. I still remind the post of one random guy who told his short story: he had to swear a lot since he met an Office 2007 first time, however, after a time of tweaking he began to love it. Then, he installed Office 2007 to all computers in his class.

teh_supar_hackr wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 11:53 pm
Me personally unless I'm doing something in SMBX 2.x (which I haven't done yet), I use the legacy editor for general SMBX projects for the best compatibility with other versions, and for the kind of people who don't want to switch to 2.x. On occasion I've used the PGE editor, but not too much because of those cons you've mentioned, and I can't play test it within the editor nearly as well as in legacy editor, and I like to play test stages often when I'm making them.
Some good news for you: since TheXTech is out, PGE Editor has the independent testing engine that is fully compatible with SMBX 1.3, include the rest of bugs. So, just install standalone PGE Project toolchain (you should use "laboratory" branch) and include "SMBX 1.3 Compatible" config pack. Then, download one of TheXTech packages and unpack it into any directory. Inside of PGE Editor, in the "Test -> TheXTech -> Change the path to XTech..." menu, choose the path to TheXTech's executable. Then, Editor is ready for work and testing. The real-time editor is fully supported: you can pick-up items in the game, you can click tilesets/itemboxes in Editor and switch back into game to place them into game directly. Use middle mouse button (press down the wheel) to switch the eraser and right mouse button to switch into selecting mode.
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