SMBX Level Designer Tier List By Request - SLAM disclaimer added

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SMBX Level Designer Tier List By Request - SLAM disclaimer added

Postby Eclipsed » Sun Mar 08, 2020 3:38 am

I am bored and tired and have decided that I will place anyone in a level designer tier list who wants them me to put them in one. Remember tiers are decided on the most relevantly recent content the person has had.

Tiers:
S - Amazing
A - Good/Enjoyable most of the time
B - Just Missing That One Thing to be in A
C - Iffy Design but has creativity
D - Boredom/Lackluster Design
F - Your stuff has actually really annoyed me
Wacky - You are way too inconsistent, sometimes I'm really annoyed and other times I'm having a decent amount of fun. Note wacky tier does not portray a sense of design quality.

S Tier - 7NameSam
S- Tier - Sancles
A Tier - AndrewPixel, ShadowStarX, Shinbison
A- Tier - Chipps, Radiance
B Tier - Cato
B- Tier - RudeGuy, Ness-Wednesday
C Tier - Inferno_Guy
C- Tier
D Tier - FieryPaperMario, computerfan0
D- Tier
F Tier - GooglePlexian
F- Tier

Wildcard Tier
Wildcard-- Tier - Eri7, MECHDRAGON777

Disclaimer: This list will avoid SLAM levels until the collab is out since I do not want to have spoilers.

Changlog
4/23/20
D Tier: (New) computerfan0
A Tier: (+1) Shinbison
3/18/20
C Tier: (New) Inferno_Guy
3/13/20
A- Tier: (New) Shinbison
B- Tier: (+1) Ness-Wednesday
Wacky Tier: Renamed to Wildcard Tier
Wacky- Tier: Renamed to Wildcard- Tier
Meta: Added Changelog
3/12/20
A- Tier: (New) Radiance
B- Tier: (New) RudeGuy07
Meta: Added Disclaimer
3/9/20
S Tier: (New) 7NameSam
S- Tier: (New) Sancles
A Tier: (New) ShadowStarX
A- Tier: (New) Chipps
B Tier: (New) Cato
F Tier: (New) Googleplexian
Wacky- Tier: (New) Eri7, (New) MECHDRAGON777
3/8/20
A Tier: (New) AndrewPixel
C Tier: (New) Ness-Wednesday
D Tier: (New) FieryPaperMario
Last edited by Eclipsed on Thu Apr 23, 2020 1:08 pm, edited 20 times in total.

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Re: SMBX Level Designer Tier List By Request

Postby Ness-Wednesday » Sun Mar 08, 2020 4:08 am

You mentioned recent content, so I guess I'll give this a yes for my name.
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Re: SMBX Level Designer Tier List By Request

Postby FireyPaperMario » Sun Mar 08, 2020 5:30 am

My best guess is I'm a "D" tier, since my AVLC entry got 23rd place

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Re: SMBX Level Designer Tier List By Request

Postby AndrewPixel » Sun Mar 08, 2020 7:09 am

Hm yeah I'm in with this one
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Re: SMBX Level Designer Tier List By Request

Postby Cedur » Sun Mar 08, 2020 7:43 am

Are you deciding tier placements yourself?
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Re: SMBX Level Designer Tier List By Request

Postby Eclipsed » Sun Mar 08, 2020 3:25 pm

Ness-Wednesday wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 4:08 am
You mentioned recent content, so I guess I'll give this a yes for my name.
Based on your most recent 2 levels, your AVLC submission and Cloud 9, I'd probably say that your most major fault is that your levels are way too messy. In the latter it was all over the place and had a pretty tedious secret exit and in the former there was just too much going on at once. You exemplify the reason why less is more often in your levels and due to your creativity boosting you up, you end up in C tier. Keep on making more levels, I'm sure you can make something pretty fun.

Added in 3 minutes 26 seconds:
FireyPaperMario wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 5:30 am
My best guess is I'm a "D" tier, since my AVLC entry got 23rd place
The only level I've seen you done was A Level In The Sky, which to me seems to be a first level. It just seems to lack a sense of coherence of what the level is trying to be. Obstacles and enemies moreso seem randomly placed. I'd give you a D-tier, however keep in mind most people's first few levels would also go in the tier. So keep designing to keep improving.

Added in 2 minutes 13 seconds:
AndrewPixel wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 7:09 am
Hm yeah I'm in with this one
Easy A tier. Most of your levels start of with a gimmick being introduced and you run with it the whole level in newer and more intriguing setups throughout. Your levels are really fun and the only reason you're not in S tier is basically the people above make better levels. Can't wait to see your SLAM levels.

Added in 50 seconds:
Cedur wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 7:43 am
Are you deciding tier placements yourself?
Someone who wishes to remain anonymous has been helping me

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Re: SMBX Level Designer Tier List By Request

Postby cato » Mon Mar 09, 2020 2:37 am

I guess I am B then. ( From the perspective of my levels in my project )

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Re: SMBX Level Designer Tier List By Request

Postby Cedur » Mon Mar 09, 2020 6:46 am

Honestly Ness' AVLC level was the most exciting of all to me and I really can't understand why it placed so low. Sure the blasters were roary but that's something he couldn't have done anything about. This level was still extraordinarily creative and fun so it should have placed top 5 at least (in fact, it was my winning candidate).
I may agree that Ness is overdoing things at times but I think he should at least be placed in B tier (the wording literally matches the problem, "the one thing that's missing to A")
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Re: SMBX Level Designer Tier List By Request

Postby Teemster2 » Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:44 am

Cedur wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 7:43 am
Are you deciding tier placements yourself?
He should have multiple judges or a voting system as 1 or 2 could end up being biased towards what they like to play or have favoritism. Also this could end up causing some people who are not as good to get discouraged but I do like that eclipsed seems to give good advice to help those people out.

I think this could be ok if done right as new members were wanting more advice for levels and episodes and may actually encourage some to do better.
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Re: SMBX Level Designer Tier List By Request

Postby Eclipsed » Mon Mar 09, 2020 12:51 pm

Teemster2 wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:44 am
Cedur wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 7:43 am
Are you deciding tier placements yourself?
Text
I already said in the thread that someone has been helping me.

Added in 2 minutes 25 seconds:
Cedur wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 6:46 am
Text.
You have failed to account for more than only his AVLC level. His 3 most recent levels include Cloud 9 and Memezuh two of which were all over the place. Even if the AVLC level did not have all those problems. His other two levels would have dragged his rating down to a C overall. Moreover, there are a lot more people in the B/B- tier that have shown more consistency with their recent design.

Added in 3 minutes 14 seconds:
cato wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 2:37 am
I guess I am B then. ( From the perspective of my levels in my project )
Yep, that’s the rating we had for you. I agree from that perspective and don’t feel the need to explain so If you have a sense of why which indicates you know you can improve on something.

Added in 3 minutes 2 seconds:
Eri7 requested via dms.
- Based on his recent ILs such as Fludd House and his canceled demos. I’d honestly say overall he’s probably in the wacky tier. Sometimes some boss design really annoys me and sometimes his gimmicks are really well utilized. Honestly his design quality (not structure) is all over the place from level to level. He’s perfectly capable of making a fun level but also needs a grasp of when his levels become too much. He can do better and I’m hoping to see higher quality levels.

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Re: SMBX Level Designer Tier List By Request

Postby MECHDRAGON777 » Mon Mar 09, 2020 1:34 pm

In multiple calls, I was told tiers are "S, A, B, C, D, E, W" where "W" stood for Wild as in "Wild Card". I was also told I was W tier only due to my levels ranging from High A tier to low C tier. You played my levels over the years and you know this. Out of the levels you played released in February, we will ignore "どこようがんのうごきおするのでちきゅうます.lvl" as that is a level made back in 1.3 in the Spring Vanilla level Contest. It was also last place due to me testing something out with lava and layer movement. We should also ignore "Tesseract Redux" due to the fact it was purposely bad as a joke. That would leave:

Thunderstorm Tempo Temple
Connect Four in SMBX (Not a level really)
Pyro Peaks
Abyssopelagic Aqueduct (First version)
Glacial Growth
Xenial Xeriscape
Stellar Station

Of those, We all can agree TTT was not that great. Also, my first water level, "Abyssopelagic Aqueduct (version 1)" was not good and quite repetitive. Xenial Xeriscape was not even test that well since I was forcing myself to be on a time crunch. That leaves Pyro Peaks, Glacial Growth, and Stellar Station. Glacial Growth was too short to say anything about. I would personaly see this as C or B tier. Pyro Peaks is a level you told me you enjoyed and a lot of people seem to like it, so I would say that qualifies for A tier. Stellar Station is the level I am most proud of and think is the best out of the Bunch. These would be my rankings for my own levels in the past month:

Thunderstorm Tempo Temple (C)
Connect Four in SMBX (W)
Pyro Peaks (A)
Abyssopelagic Aqueduct (First version) (C)
Glacial Growth (C)
Xenial Xeriscape (B)
Stellar Station (A)
Tesseract Redux (E)

I would prefer a tier list for playing skill personally.

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Re: SMBX Level Designer Tier List By Request

Postby Chipss » Mon Mar 09, 2020 3:43 pm

Hmm. Interesting. I’d be curious to see what my rank would be. Although I’m not sure if I have enough of my content actually released yet to constitute a fair ranking.
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Re: SMBX Level Designer Tier List By Request

Postby Sancles-Chan » Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:03 pm

try me bitch.
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Re: SMBX Level Designer Tier List By Request

Postby Cedur » Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:12 pm

MECHDRAGON777 wrote:We all can agree TTT was not that great.

Fun fact the Mosaic Contest is still going on, I haven't even submitted my judging of that level yet. I'd say publishing the level and talking about it was a little indiscrete.
Eclipsed wrote:You have failed to account for more than only his AVLC level. His 3 most recent levels include Cloud 9 and Memezuh two of which were all over the place. Even if the AVLC level did not have all those problems. His other two levels would have dragged his rating down to a C overall. Moreover, there are a lot more people in the B/B- tier that have shown more consistency with their recent design.

Fair.
Teemster2 wrote:Also this could end up causing some people who are not as good to get discouraged but I do like that eclipsed seems to give good advice to help those people out.

I think this could be ok if done right as new members were wanting more advice for levels and episodes and may actually encourage some to do better.

^^^^
I also hope that this turns out a productive encouraging of LDers rather than a popularity contest
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Re: SMBX Level Designer Tier List By Request

Postby ShadowStarX » Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:13 pm

Well I don't really release much content.
But if I have a place somewhere, I'd like to know.
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Re: SMBX Level Designer Tier List By Request

Postby Eclipsed » Mon Mar 09, 2020 6:39 pm

Chipss wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 3:43 pm
Hmm. Interesting. I’d be curious to see what my rank would be. Although I’m not sure if I have enough of my content actually released yet to constitute a fair ranking.
Based on the content I have played I would probably put you in the A- tier. Your levels that I have seen have pretty defined gimmicks along with setup variety in the way those gimmicks are used. The main issue is that sometimes the setups feel iffy such as having to wait a while in Spring Showers or it was awkward to get started on that large rotating platforms. Overall, I am looking forward to your episode and hope your design keeps on improving.

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Re: SMBX Level Designer Tier List By Request

Postby Ness-Wednesday » Mon Mar 09, 2020 6:41 pm

Cedur wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:12 pm
Fun fact the Mosaic Contest is still going on, I haven't even submitted my judging of that level yet. I'd say publishing the level and talking about it was a little indiscrete.
Huh. I've been wondering what's going on with the Mosaic contest lol.
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Re: SMBX Level Designer Tier List By Request

Postby Eclipsed » Mon Mar 09, 2020 6:47 pm

Sancles-Chan wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:03 pm
try me bitch.
Based on our discussion, we have decided to put you in the S- tier as you have accomplished creating the only decent meme episodes with the betterified series. Moreover your individual levels have shown a strong indicator of understanding 4 step design and that you are not a one-trick level designer. I originally had you in S tier but after talking to the other judge, they said they would put you in the S- tier. The reasons for this is that they do not think you have great checkpoint placement, although I'm personally fine with it and think this is not a decent enough reason to put you in S- instead of S tier. What convinced me is their next point however where they stated you have some slight difficult management problems. In more simple terms, they simply meant that your levels are not newcomer-friendly (as in easing them into the level) enough as the levels in S tier.

Added in 1 hour 28 minutes 21 seconds:
ShadowStarX wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:13 pm
Well I don't really release much content.
But if I have a place somewhere, I'd like to know.
The most recent level you have made is CyberFrost Facility, and the levels before that are too old to be included. I would say that you have a strong sense of introudcing and utilizing a gimmick and making various setups from it. In this level new stuff that fit the flow of the gimmick was added. Mostly, the main thing holding you back I would say is probably level length. Some of the sections, although they were overall fun, felt like they could have been more concise or cut out and still effectively bring your point across. This level takes around 4 minutes to speedrun and there are definitely some areas that I barely remember. You receive an A.

Added in 5 minutes 26 seconds:
7NameSam requested a rating via DMs. And I would like to say that her levels are an easy S tier. Their levels are consistently creative and don't fall into the traps of using only a few npcs to explore the gimmicks while ignoring the other possibilities nor the trap of make use of the gimmick by overloading it and combining it with every npc possible, making the level feel disjointed. 7NameSam consistently manages to strike a perfect balance of both. Each section feels like it further expands on the gimmick without overstaying its welcome. Often her final sections either ties everything together or introduces a new challenge to test the player's understanding of what was introduced. Her first sections grant the player a fairly lax and an obvious "show don't tell" basis of level design. This makes 7NameSam S tier.

Added in 7 minutes 6 seconds:
cato wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 2:37 am
I guess I am B then. ( From the perspective of my levels in my project )
Also one more thing aside from rating. I'm looking at your project and as a heads up not every level needs a boss. This decision could easily lower the quality of the episode as each boss needs to feel unique and distinct from the other. Furthermore, they have to avoid dragging on way too long. Doing this for an episode that has 5-10 levels is hard, but more possible. However your episode has around 60+ levels, and the fact a majority of the bosses are vanilla are a major concern.

1. Please put a checkpoint before each boss in your episode
2. If you decide to do this, definitely ask for some beta testers and make sure they all have a different feel to them
3. One idea I have is have the level gimmick as part of the boss fight. Let's say there's a level based upon climbing vines. Why not make one attack where the player has to traverse some vines to dodge the boss.

Added in 42 minutes 41 seconds:
Googleplexian requested me to do it via twitter DMs and this will consider Adventures of DX and not Super Mario DX as the latter are more recent.

This episode series is ultimately the definition of the pitfalls of making first episode(s). To start off the episode to be honest was just kind of bland and there really was not much that I remember. Besides that, this episode series was filled with bosses and were specifically designed to be as hard as possible. This aspect should not be your goal when making a boss fight since it can easily tunnel vision into bad design. These bosses specifically in the third one got to the point of frustration. Most of the time the bosses felt more pre-emptive then reactive as in you would most likely die if you did not know what was happening next so it would turn into memorizing an entire enlongated 4 or 5 minute sequence. The level designer knows exactly what is supposed to happen, the same cannot be said for the player. The reason that he does not fall into F- tier is because he actually tested his levels and that despite all this frustration, there were ounces of creativity such as trying to block off falling lava and guiding a lakitu to a bomb generator(s). I have talked to Googleplexian and he is aware of the issues that were rampant throughout his episodes. Therefore, I believe his next episode will be a massive improvement and am looking forward to see how his design changes. All in all currently, Googleplexian sits in F tier.

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Re: SMBX Level Designer Tier List By Request

Postby MECHDRAGON777 » Tue Mar 10, 2020 8:19 am

Cedur wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:12 pm
MECHDRAGON777 wrote:We all can agree TTT was not that great.

Fun fact the Mosaic Contest is still going on, I haven't even submitted my judging of that level yet. I'd say publishing the level and talking about it was a little indiscrete.
Eclipsed wrote:You have failed to account for more than only his AVLC level. His 3 most recent levels include Cloud 9 and Memezuh two of which were all over the place. Even if the AVLC level did not have all those problems. His other two levels would have dragged his rating down to a C overall. Moreover, there are a lot more people in the B/B- tier that have shown more consistency with their recent design.

Fair.
Teemster2 wrote:Also this could end up causing some people who are not as good to get discouraged but I do like that eclipsed seems to give good advice to help those people out.

I think this could be ok if done right as new members were wanting more advice for levels and episodes and may actually encourage some to do better.

^^^^
I also hope that this turns out a productive encouraging of LDers rather than a popularity contest
I was asking about that level for over a month and Mosaic gave me the okay to release it on Leap Day when I asked back in January.

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