What do you think about emulation?

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What do you think about emulation?

Postby Artemis008 » Sun Aug 28, 2016 1:22 pm

What are your thoughts on emulation? When do you think emulation is acceptable? I think that if the game absolutely CANNOT be found in stores, then its OK. I also think if you own a copy of the game, then its not a bad thing.
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Re: What do you think about emulation?

Postby HenryRichard » Sun Aug 28, 2016 5:43 pm

There's nothing wrong with emulation. It's just when there's piracy involved that I've got a problem with it.
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Re: What do you think about emulation?

Postby Turnip » Mon Aug 29, 2016 7:53 pm

I think that it's fine, but should only be used as a last resort if you want to play a new game. Like for example, if you cannot find a copy of a game that's not on PC, then I think it's okay only if you want to play it yourself. If you already bought the game, then it's fine since you already supported the developer.
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Re: What do you think about emulation?

Postby onpon4 » Mon Aug 29, 2016 9:06 pm

Other than tool-assisted speedruns, emulation is a cumbersome workaround to loss of compatibility caused by use of Assembly, a program only existing in binary form, or both. It should be a last resort; if you can compile a native binary for your current system, that's what you should do for the best possible performance and experience. But if you must use emulation, there's nothing wrong with that in principle.

As for copyright infringement, there's nothing wrong with that. Copyright is what is wrong, and should be abolished.

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Re: What do you think about emulation?

Postby Fuyu » Tue Aug 30, 2016 12:59 pm

I used to abhor buying a console AND the game separately. It felt like I had to pay extra cash just so I could get my hands on the damn game, a thing that I couldn't do since my parents couldn't afford one, much less both after they got divorced. So I turned to emulating games, most of my console experience was through emulators, where I played the likes of the Super Mario Brothers. trilogy, Super Mario World, Super Metroid, The Legend of Zelda (ALttP, OoT, MM, etc), the entire Megaman series including the Megaman X games, etc. I played all of them via emulators, and I didn't play on a console until I got my hands on a Sega Genesis, though I did not play the likes of Sonic The Hedgehog, but rather Quackshot and whatnot.

Nonetheless, looking back I don't despise it as much, considering that's what companies had to put up with at the time. In fact, I believe that if I had to relive it and I would happen to have the resources, I would unrepentantly do so. I even want to pay for the games I get because I feel like I earned them. So if I were to be asked when is it appropriate to emulate a game, I would say when you have near null chance of playing it the way you were supposed to play it, say like you want to play the likes of the original Super Mario Bros. or even the original Pacman on the Atari. If you have the chance to buy a game and its console, just get it that way.
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Re: What do you think about emulation?

Postby Pseudo » Tue Aug 30, 2016 3:17 pm

I consider emulation to be ethical as long as the game is no longer being manufacture and/or you own a "legitimate" copy of the game.

I'm not really going to judge anyone who does otherwise though.
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Re: What do you think about emulation?

Postby Magician » Sun Sep 04, 2016 2:56 am

Digital shops being what they are today, if the game is supported, I'll buy it. Consider steam sales. I also want sites like gog.com to stay in business; that kind of thing has meaning to me.

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Re: What do you think about emulation?

Postby SnifitGuy » Sun Sep 04, 2016 8:25 am

Pseudo-dino wrote:I consider emulation to be ethical as long as the game is no longer being manufacture and/or you own a "legitimate" copy of the game.

I'm not really going to judge anyone who does otherwise though.
Agreed. Games like the original Super Mario World, Super Mario All-Stars, etc. are fine to emulate simply because it's impossible to find a classic SNES for a fair price as well as the games since they are all collector's items at this point (although maybe Nintendo will pull the same stunt with a SNES Classic that they pulled with the NES Classic). It's not like I'll be emulating the likes of Super Mario 3D World or Super Smash Bros. 4 anytime soon (although, due to physical limits, this is a near impossibility; it's a struggle enough to emulate some gamecube games).

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Re: What do you think about emulation?

Postby Magician » Mon Sep 05, 2016 1:52 am

If there's anything Super Mario World has different from the Virtual Console version, I'm sure it's insignificant. It's fine to emulate mainly because there's an official emulator, if you ask me. You can get that game on any modern Nintendo device. It gets questionable when you already own the game and don't want to buy something twice—I don't agree, but it's understandable, and that's why I appreciated when they were offering only a small surcharge for ported titles from Wii to Wii U.

I would support content like that becoming public domain sooner, now. We wouldn't have price scalping on such old titles. I definitely don't understand why I should be paying more than ten dollars for a digital 3DS port of A Link to the Past when I bought it on Wii a long time ago and paid only a buck to move it to Wii U for Miiverse support and everything. I realize i'm paying for a service, but I don't see how it could have been any more expensive to create than the Wii U port. If that huge price difference is for any other reason than that the new CEO wants to make more money, perhaps someone could enlighten me.

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Re: What do you think about emulation?

Postby Artemis008 » Mon Sep 05, 2016 12:47 pm

I like emulation bc some games are just literally not available in any store (digital or otherwise). Moon Crystal, for example is a hidden gem on the Famicom that most will never see simply because emulation is illegal. That's not the only title that never hit American shelves, the like of Seisen No Keifu, Another Story, and Terranigma are all great games. Yet, they end up very unloved bc of emulation policies. I'm also fine with emulating games I already own. I've spent almost 200$ in eshop virtual console games, and I'm not letting it go to waste.
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Re: What do you think about emulation?

Postby Pseudo » Mon Sep 05, 2016 12:54 pm

Emulation isn't illegal (at least in the US), just downloading the ROMs as opposed to ripping them yourself. There's a lot of plausible deniability there to be honest.
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Re: What do you think about emulation?

Postby Artemis008 » Mon Sep 05, 2016 1:57 pm

Pseudo-dino wrote:Emulation isn't illegal (at least in the US), just downloading the ROMs as opposed to ripping them yourself. There's a lot of plausible deniability there to be honest.
I tried ripping the roms from my 3ds's memory card. Because they came off eshop and not a cartridge or disc, its impossible.
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Well you see luigi, when a paisano puts his spaghetti noodle in a mamma mia’s ravioli, a little bambino covered in prosciutto comes out about nine months later -Mario

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Re: What do you think about emulation?

Postby onpon4 » Mon Sep 05, 2016 9:36 pm

You probably have to rip the ROMs off of the original cartridges; I'm sure there must be some sort of DRM to prevent you from finding a copy of the ROMs used in Virtual Console. Some sort of specialized hardware is needed to do this.

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Re: What do you think about emulation?

Postby Artemis008 » Mon Sep 05, 2016 11:34 pm

onpon4 wrote:You probably have to rip the ROMs off of the original cartridges; I'm sure there must be some sort of DRM to prevent you from finding a copy of the ROMs used in Virtual Console. Some sort of specialized hardware is needed to do this.
So its not illegal but it is prohibited? This really doesn't make much sense. So, because I bought them on VC, Nintendo expects me to go out and purchase a 200$ cartridge, instead of just downloading them off the internet. Even though if I do buy the 200$ cart Nintendo won't get anything from it anyway.
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Well you see luigi, when a paisano puts his spaghetti noodle in a mamma mia’s ravioli, a little bambino covered in prosciutto comes out about nine months later -Mario

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Re: What do you think about emulation?

Postby onpon4 » Tue Sep 06, 2016 12:03 am

Hey, I never said copyright was just. Quite the opposite. :) You can legally rip the contents of a cartridge as long as it's an archival copy (so... you can't legally actually use it unless the original copy gets destroyed), and if there's some sort of DRM stopping you from making copies, breaking that DRM (assuming you can) is a violation of the DMCA unless a specific exemption has been given for your use-case in the last few years. (That's over-simplifying it a bit, but you can look up the details on your own if you're interested.)
Nintendo expects me to go out and purchase a 200$ cartridge, instead of just downloading them off the internet.
Oh, of course not. Nintendo expects you to keep paying them over and over again for the same games and only play them in ways they have officially designated.

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Re: What do you think about emulation?

Postby Drluigi » Mon Sep 19, 2016 8:35 pm

I personally think emulation is fine if it's for a console that's been obsolete for 2 generations or later because the companies don't support those consoles anymore. Anything else should only be emulated if you own an actual copy of the game. IMO, the most recent console that's ok to emulate is the Wii. The NX is coming out soon, and that'll make the wii a 2 generation old console.
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Re: What do you think about emulation?

Postby DarkMatt » Wed Sep 21, 2016 12:00 pm

Artemis008 wrote:I think that if the game absolutely CANNOT be found in stores, then its OK. I also think if you own a copy of the game, then its not a bad thing.
No and no.

Way intellectual property works is that content stays the owner's even after it's nowhere to be found. (You can thank Disney for that, mostly.) It also doesn't matter if you own the game, they still frown at you for having a copy you did not pay for. The way copyright law works, they don't want you having any copy that you obviously didn't pay for.

Thankfully, because most people, even copyright enforcers, agreed it's outright asinine to go after every person who has downloaded a ROM, that's not something you would get hunted down for. It is instead, simply, a matter you would not openly discuss in public, since it doesn't take much thinking to understand that, yes, it's an illegal copy, and they told you not to copy that floppy. That's why having copies for your own personal use, for your self, to not share with anyone else, is usually the most ethical way to break copyright. They just tell you not to spread the word and let you be, partly since they're old games and partly since, most of the time, it's from a company that doesn't benefit from their old games being on lockdown. I'm not saying games from dead companies are fine, though. Copyright infringement is pretty cut and dry.

Do I think emulation is fine? Well, of course I do. For God's sake you kids are playing Super Mario Brothers X. However, emulation is a very touchy subject. It's not necessarily right or wrong, but people will fight over the legality of it.
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Re: What do you think about emulation?

Postby Artemis008 » Wed Sep 21, 2016 2:59 pm

DarkMatt wrote:
Artemis008 wrote:I think that if the game absolutely CANNOT be found in stores, then its OK. I also think if you own a copy of the game, then its not a bad thing.
No and no.

Way intellectual property works is that content stays the owner's even after it's nowhere to be found. (You can thank Disney for that, mostly.) It also doesn't matter if you own the game, they still frown at you for having a copy you did not pay for. The way copyright law works, they don't want you having any copy that you obviously didn't pay for.

Thankfully, because most people, even copyright enforcers, agreed it's outright asinine to go after every person who has downloaded a ROM, that's not something you would get hunted down for. It is instead, simply, a matter you would not openly discuss in public, since it doesn't take much thinking to understand that, yes, it's an illegal copy, and they told you not to copy that floppy. That's why having copies for your own personal use, for your self, to not share with anyone else, is usually the most ethical way to break copyright. They just tell you not to spread the word and let you be, partly since they're old games and partly since, most of the time, it's from a company that doesn't benefit from their old games being on lockdown. I'm not saying games from dead companies are fine, though. Copyright infringement is pretty cut and dry.

Do I think emulation is fine? Well, of course I do. For God's sake you kids are playing Super Mario Brothers X. However, emulation is a very touchy subject. It's not necessarily right or wrong, but people will fight over the legality of it.
That doesn't make sense, if the item cannot be found then the creator is not making money off of it either way.
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Well you see luigi, when a paisano puts his spaghetti noodle in a mamma mia’s ravioli, a little bambino covered in prosciutto comes out about nine months later -Mario

I believe in Mario as my lord and Savior, if you do, put this image in your signature.
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Re: What do you think about emulation?

Postby DarkMatt » Wed Sep 21, 2016 4:15 pm

Super Mario All-Stars. No one can find the SNES cart of it anymore, and then Nintendo went and shoved it on the Wii and expected people who haven't played it already to buy that instead of pirate it.

Just because the particular content in mind is no longer openly available doesn't mean people get to grab it for free. Creators, especially living ones, reserve the right to make money off their old work again and protect their old work from losing profit just because it's unavailable. That's the black and white of copyright law. Of course that is not the case for every creator, but, for those that do care when people just start pirating their work because they can't find it, the law is set to help those who feel they were wronged by people pirating their games, and not be a big deal for everyone else.

It's why you don't see crusades on abandonware or 8/16-bit roms, but no one tries to pass owning those off as legal.
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Re: What do you think about emulation?

Postby Electriking » Wed Sep 21, 2016 4:34 pm

I would say that it is (or should be) perfectly fine to emulate games as long as they are no longer generating income for the developers, and this is true for most old games, and said developers don't even care much. In case you don't know, Nintendo actively shut down or attempt any illegal copies of their games that they find, and any emulators (this may have been why Virtual NES disappeared last year), but this is only because they still grant money for them. Nintendo also shut down any fan games that use their products. As someone who has played on illegal copies off games and illegal fan games (like SMBX, for example) I basically support emulation and fan games. But since they only violate civil laws, that means there is nothing wrong with them, and the creators of the illegal games and/or copies have done nothing wrong, until someone attempts to sue them.
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