I've been trying to be quiet for months, but I can't anymore

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Re: I've been trying to be quiet for months, but I can't any

Postby Mivixion » Mon Apr 06, 2015 9:42 pm

Seriousness != maturity

You can be joking every other sentence and still be a philosopher, and then there's the whole other issue of inner maturity (how you are) and outer maturity (how you act).

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Re: I've been trying to be quiet for months, but I can't any

Postby Shadow Yoshi » Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:00 pm

Is it not true, though? Look at it objectively instead of pointing fingers at me personally.

And I'm not saying it's a good thing. The size of the maturity gap between the staff and most of the users here makes everything a lot harder than it needs to be. Note also that I said "most" of the users here - we have some really solid members of this community that are really mature and fun to hang around. But the majority of regular members of this community have a detrimental maturity level in relation to the staff.

It's not something I'm happy with.
8bitmushroom wrote:To me it seems like Joey thinks the only mature members of this community are the staff itself
This is not what I said.

I never said anyone was "mature" or "immature"; only who is more mature than others.

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Re: I've been trying to be quiet for months, but I can't any

Postby Danny » Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:14 pm

Joey wrote:Note also that I said "most" of the users here - we have some really solid members of this community that are really mature and fun to hang around.
And who would those members be?
Joey wrote:But the majority of regular members of this community have a detrimental maturity level in relation to the staff.
I didn't realize to be mature you had to be posh, able to argue extremely well, and partake in political debates. Also, I didn't realize being mature meant you had to give up every bit of fun you could have with something, no matter how inane that something might be.
Joey wrote:It's not something I'm happy with.
And you expect to fix this how? The only suggestion that has been given that would work but would also be very idiotic would be to remove all of the detrimental users.
Joey wrote:
8bitmushroom wrote:To me it seems like Joey thinks the only mature members of this community are the staff itself
This is not what I said.

I never said anyone was "mature" or "immature"; only who is more mature than others.
Uh... first off, tell me the difference between saying certain people are more mature than others than saying who is mature and who is immature. Both are saying the exact same things but you chose to word it differently just to get an argument.
Joey wrote:Note also that I said "most" of the users here - we have some really solid members of this community that are really mature and fun to hang around.
Joey wrote:The issue is that the staff is always made out to be the bad guys because we're the ones here that, more or less, operate with the most sense and maturity.
Joey wrote:But the majority of regular members of this community have a detrimental maturity level in relation to the staff.
Also, I never implied that's what you said, I only said "to me it seems like Joey thinks".
Keyword: Thinks.
Not anywhere did I say nor imply those were your exact words. It was only what I thought.
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Re: I've been trying to be quiet for months, but I can't any

Postby FanofSMBX » Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:20 pm

I'm not sure what to think, really. I'd say "serious" would be a more measurable attribute than "mature" - this would be true.

I can't say that I like that, though - for all the not-serious on SMBXR, I had a load more fun with it.
Free roleplaying -> the current situation
A fun shop -> removed
Free design in TI3 -> level designers
Relaxed authority -> more authorical

The old forums felt like "a place for teens to just, y'know, hang out!". The new ones feel like "NEW OFFICIAL ONLY SMBX FORUM AND EPISODES BY JOEY AND LEVEL DESIGNERS!". That doesn't have to be a bad thing... But it's a bad thing when the only forum is lamer.

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Re: I've been trying to be quiet for months, but I can't any

Postby Danny » Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:26 pm

Personally, I really enjoyed SMBXR, it had a livelier community, it was a lot cooler.

This place just seems kind of drab and seems like its only goal is to recreate the original forums as much as possible. That's kind of boring and not the fresh, new look we need, which is what SMBXR had.
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Re: I've been trying to be quiet for months, but I can't any

Postby Shadow Yoshi » Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:38 pm

(This is getting into extremely unnecessary detail, so I'm going to spoil the following section for those who have no desire to read it.)
Spoiler: show
8bit: I know you're not actually in school, but bear with me here: you and your friend get a 95% and an 85% on a test, respectively. Both are good grades, but you did 10% better. On a different test, you and your friend get a 55% and a 45%, respectively. Both are failing grades, but you still did 10% better.

Does this make sense now? With the exception of the "really solid members" quote (which isn't relevant to your post), I was just saying that the staff is more or less "more mature". This is that 10% - regardless of who is mature/immature (who did good/bad on the test), the staff is more mature (you did better on the test).
Anyway, this forum isn't as "serious" as people think. If you think that being "serious" is not letting people fuck around and act stupid, then yes, we are incredibly serious.

But what exactly is "acting stupid"?

This is the standard of tolerable behavior in this community.

This standard was indirectly created by Redigit, hated by Kyasarin, raised slightly by CaptainTrek's administration, and lowered by Knux. I'm trying to raise this standard.

Basically what's happening right now is that some community members' standards are not set as high as mine. This is pretty much what I've been saying from the beginning: the transition out of Knux's forums and into community growth and development may very well not be easy. The people that liked making terrible posts on past forums aren't allowed to do that anymore. Is this making sense to everybody? Please say so if it isn't.

The collective standards of the community are low, so the only real option is to raise them and enforce it.

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Re: I've been trying to be quiet for months, but I can't any

Postby Danny » Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:52 pm

You keep going on about Knux's forum yet have you completely forgotten about SMBXR?

If you want to make this forum any good, make it like that one. It rose the standard from Knux's, you won't be the first to do it. The forum did exist, but you never seem to mention it at all, same goes for NSMBX. You're always pointing directly to Knux's forum as if the community needs fixing from that state when NSMBX and SMBXR ran the communities greatly.
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Re: I've been trying to be quiet for months, but I can't any

Postby MistakesWereMade » Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:58 pm

i agree with 8bit, literally the only problem i had with the nsmbx forums was the fact that there were some obnoxious autists here and there but other than that it was great.

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Re: I've been trying to be quiet for months, but I can't any

Postby Shadow Yoshi » Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:58 pm

SMBXR ultimately did nothing except for helping the community merge into here. That's about all I give it credit for.

NSMBX did nothing but provide an alternative to Knux's forums, which, at the end of the day, was where the community was based. Knux's forums outlasted it, so no change ultimately occurred.

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Re: I've been trying to be quiet for months, but I can't any

Postby MistakesWereMade » Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:04 pm

Joey wrote:SMBXR ultimately did nothing except for helping the community merge into here. That's about all I give it credit for.

NSMBX did nothing but provide an alternative to Knux's forums, which, at the end of the day, was where the community was based. Knux's forums outlasted it, so no change ultimately occurred.
SMBXR didn't do any of that "historical change in the community" people like you and knux like to point out in every single argument about the community's direction. It technicallydidn't do anything, yes, but the reason why it's relevant is because there was like a negative ammount of shitstorms compared to here/knuxforum, especially during reghrhre's adminship, everyone was chill and stuff and they managed to keep it that way, but here, it's like nobody is capable of bringing "big change" without starting a shitstorm.

EDIT: I'm perfectly fine with the state the forum/the staff is in right now, i'm not saying there should be change, but some of the stuff you're saying is questionable.
Last edited by MistakesWereMade on Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: I've been trying to be quiet for months, but I can't any

Postby Shadow Yoshi » Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:11 pm

I understand that "community drama" may not be fun, but it's usually productive.

Speaking of being productive, where is this discussion going? I want to make this forum a better place where people can just hang out and talk. I can't do that at the snap of a finger, and it requires community members to work as well to make the SMBX community better. This is a process that isn't going to take place in a thread.

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Re: I've been trying to be quiet for months, but I can't any

Postby Danny » Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:16 pm

Joey wrote:SMBXR ultimately did nothing except for helping the community merge into here. That's about all I give it credit for.
Image

First off let me tell you that that is rather arrogant and quite egotistical of you to say.

SMBXR supported SMBX and provided a great place for SMBX more than any other forum did, saying that all it did was help the community merge into your forums and that's the only thing you credit it for is being REALLY ARROGANT.
Joey wrote:NSMBX did nothing but provide an alternative to Knux's forums, which, at the end of the day, was where the community was based. Knux's forums outlasted it, so no change ultimately occurred.
NSMBX provided a much more mature alternative to Knux's forums, and supported SMBX a lot more. Knux's forums only outlasted it because of disagreements between everyone that was to be part of the merge that birthed SMBXR, there was quite a lot of change that occurred there, saying nothing happened is being REALLY IGNORANT.

Saying that neither of these forums was credible for quite a large portion of the community's uprising, especially saying that SMBXR only helped your forums, is REALLY EGOTISTICAL.

I have to say, objectively, that SMBXR was the best forum. Attempting to recreate the past isn't going to do anything, we need a fresh, new look. Not the same old drab forum layout. As much as it is nostalgic, nostalgia is supposed to stay in the past, not return to do literally nothing but make everything boring.
Joey wrote:I understand that "community drama" may not be fun, but it's usually productive.
So far, with all the community drama we've had recently, nothing productive has actually come out of it.
Speaking of being productive, where is this discussion going?
Wherever you're taking it.
I want to make this forum a better place where people can just hang out and talk. I can't do that at the snap of a finger, and it requires community members to work as well to make the SMBX community better.
The SMBX community was actually pretty fine until SMBXR was shut down and you butted in to take over. You also can't make it better when nothing spectacular has changed. How do you propose to make it better? What are your ultimate goals to make it better? It can't really get any better than what SMBXR was. Recreating the original forums and trying to take after TrekWeb isn't going to make it any better.
This is a process that isn't going to take place in a thread.
Then where will this process take place, and when will it take place? You haven't really said or done anything that will make this community better.
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Re: I've been trying to be quiet for months, but I can't any

Postby FallingSnow » Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:17 pm

Probably deserves its own thread, but do people have ideas for Joey's "make this a cool place to chill" [/pun] forum? Like subforum suggestions maybe?

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Re: I've been trying to be quiet for months, but I can't any

Postby Zeldamaster12 » Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:18 pm

Isn't there a site discussion thread?
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Re: I've been trying to be quiet for months, but I can't any

Postby MistakesWereMade » Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:19 pm

Joey wrote:I understand that "community drama" may not be fun, but it's usually productive.

Speaking of being productive, where is this discussion going? I want to make this forum a better place where people can just hang out and talk. I can't do that at the snap of a finger, and it requires community members to work as well to make the SMBX community better. This is a process that isn't going to take place in a thread.
To be fair, like i said in my post, i'm perfectly fine with the current staff/forum stuff, i think my issue right now, while it's too personal, is that there's too many obnoxious ass users, it's not a problem of yours/the staff's, but it's not like i can just report someone for "this guy said something incredibly stupid, even though it's not offensive and didn't break the rules".

i think that's why i liked the rep system, imo it induced some users to reduce the ammount of annoying posts they made, heck, i think i did so for a while (#self-complementing)

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Re: I've been trying to be quiet for months, but I can't any

Postby Zeldamaster12 » Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:25 pm

The rep system caused more harm than good. Every time a user was downrepped, all hell would break loose (I've seriously gotten quite a bit of hate from the downrepped user for downrepping. Two threatened to leave the site because of it). Also, the rep system was abused quite a bit, whether it was pointless upreps, pointless downreps, or revenge downreps. There was nonstop bickering and complaining over it to the point to where even I wanted it gone. Multiple users got warned and banned because of abusing the rep system. Oh and the user's rep would greatly affect how people looked at the user. And I mean this in a bad way, for people would get looked down upon for having a negative rep.

Point is, I'm glad the rep system is gone, and I don't want to see it back for quite some time.
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Re: I've been trying to be quiet for months, but I can't any

Postby Shadow Yoshi » Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:26 pm

Nien wrote:but it's not like i can just report someone for "this guy said something incredibly stupid, even though it's not offensive and didn't break the rules".
No, seriously, you can do that. I encourage you to.

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Re: I've been trying to be quiet for months, but I can't any

Postby Danny » Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:29 pm

Zeldamaster12 wrote:The rep system caused more harm than good. Every time a user was downrepped, all hell would break loose (I've seriously gotten quite a bit of hate from the downrepped user for downrepping. Two threatened to leave the site because of it). Also, the rep system was abused quite a bit, whether it was pointless upreps, pointless downreps, or revenge downreps. There was nonstop bickering and complaining over it to the point to where even I wanted it gone. Multiple users got warned and banned because of abusing the rep system. Oh and the user's rep would greatly affect how people looked at the user. And I mean this in a bad way, for people would get looked down upon for having a negative rep.

Point is, I'm glad the rep system is gone, and I don't want to see it back for quite some time.
But that was literally the point of the rep system. Maybe if there was the ability to delete and redact rep it would have been better, but still.

For the people that complained and threatened to leave the site, then maybe criticism is not for them? If somebody is acting detrimental and would have negative rep, then they would need to fix that quite obviously. The rep system warnings and bans that were threatened were also taken far too lightly, so there's also that.
Joey wrote:
Nien wrote:but it's not like i can just report someone for "this guy said something incredibly stupid, even though it's not offensive and didn't break the rules".
No, seriously, you can do that. I encourage you to.
Last time I did that my report was completely ignored. Maybe if you told the other moderators about your encouragements for certain report reasons or you actually included a report reason for that specific reason right there then maybe the reports wouldn't get ignored?
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Re: I've been trying to be quiet for months, but I can't any

Postby m4sterbr0s » Tue Apr 07, 2015 1:28 am

Might as well add something productive. (By the way, really surprised how I didn't get a warning for my previous post regarding drama, lol.)

I think I've stated this before a few times, but I'm not sure if anyone really followed up with it. Why can't we begin the forums over again? I want to be fair and say that both staff and userbase are equally wrong. Yeah I admit, when I came back as an admin, I didn't do anything because of college and I really shouldn't have asked back for my position.

For those of you who are wandering btw, the reason I'm part of the Global Moderator group is because I'll have time to moderate the forums during the summer. However, I would like to state this out of fairness: if you guys honestly feel like someone else can take my position due to my part inactivity, I am perfectly fine with that. I just don't want people annoyed that I'm part of staff and is doing nothing. (currently cramming for an exam atm, which is always fun! lol)

But anyway, getting back to my point. One, I think people need to show a bit more respect towards Joey. He does care about improving the forums, and he even tried to make it resemble the original forums. I know it's not the same as previous forums or the old forum, but at least he's trying. I can understand the criticism, but I feel as if you guys are bashing him a bit as well.

Second, I know that the staff could have done a better job, and I'm just talking about in general. This is mainly from inactivity of some members (formerly myself included), in addition to the way warnings and such have been handed out. I think one issue was the fact that we warned users on the minute things rather than more relevant issues. For example, until recently warnings were being given due to lack of constructive criticism for a graphic. Yes, it is important to give feedback, but not every post should be having that. A compliment is fine, as long as it's not offensive or off-topic.

The idea about starting over may seem outrageous, but it's better than arguing and bashing each other with little to no progress (I think someone mentioned something like that several posts ago).

This a forum for fun; it shouldn't consist of drama. Look at SMWCentral for instance. It's Mario based with barely any drama. It would be nice if the standards for this forum can become similar to that of SMWCentral.

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Re: I've been trying to be quiet for months, but I can't any

Postby Karl Marx » Tue Apr 07, 2015 1:37 am

The main problem with the site and its users seems to be the resistance to change. Sure, changing out the staff to ensure we have effective moderation is important, but it is not the important factor here. The biggest problem is with the users, caught up upon years of slandering another, criticizing everything about the site and its user base, yet not willing to change themselves. Until each user here changes their respective behavior, we will never have a functional site. Unfortunately, there's nothing Joey can do to catalyze that change, it has to be completely voluntary from each and every user. And if anyone here has too much pride to change how they act here and how they treat other community members, well, they no longer have the privilege of posting here.

Like it was preciously stated, this forum should be a place of fun! However, all this negativity stifles that atmosphere, and the only way that'll change is if each user changed how they contribute to that negative feeling.

And if you don't think you need to change, well then, you're part of the problem
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