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The Overworld Tilekit

Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 4:15 pm
by rixithechao
So, uh, hey, I forgot this thing existed for like two years. I guess it was waiting on Beta 4 and then it kinda got sidelined with the advent of the 3D map functionality and expanded tile arrays?
Well, Beta 4's been out for a month now so I should probably go ahead and release it, shouldn't I?

WHAT IS IT?
This is not a graphics pack in the traditional sense, it's a template package for the free Tiled map editor. It can help with making overworld maps if you use a similar approach to the old LCJ episode.

LCJ?
Level Contest Japan. As the name suggests, it was a 2017 level contest whose compilation episode had this really fancy overworld made by enjl and pyro.


Back in Beta 3 there were a lot fewer overworld tile slots, so they got around those asset limits by making the map's terrain as one big image and then splitting it into different chunks.
Image

Nowadays we have more tile IDs to work with, so I can make everything I need in the editor. How is this still relevant?
Aside from whatever Quality-of-Life improvements Tiled has added in the two years this package has been collecting dust on my computer, one big advantage that software has over SMBX's overworld map editor is a proper layer system in the vein of image editors.

In SMBX's map editor, when you want to have, say, a seam between cliffs and ground, you need to make a variant for every combination you'll be using: cliff/green grass, cliff/purple grass, cliff/sand, cliff/rock, oh god now we're adding a second cliff type that's going to DOUBLE the seam tile count... it adds up very quickly both in time spent making the images AND the tile ID usage.

But in Tiled? Just have the transparent cliff seam on one layer and the ground tile on another. Then if you want to change the ground you can just change the tiles on the ground layer and vice-versa. And this package comes with some pre-made tilesets and terrain brushes to help you get started right away!

Image

THIS ISN'T A COMPLETE REPLACEMENT FOR THE SMBX MAP EDITOR, IS IT?
Of course not! All elements that animate or serve gameplay purposes will still need to be placed via the SMBX editor. This also won't help with any of the fancy lua-based stuff you see in the LCJ map video (though folks have since released lua scripts that recreate some of the functionality, like the single-screen submaps.) The Overworld Tilekit is strictly for helping with static terrain.

TL;DR?
Using this tilekit means a slightly more complicated workflow, so I don't recommend it for beginners. But for more intermediate and advanced SMBX users who are A) looking to make more complex world maps, and B) aren't afraid to learn a new tool to help with it, this tilekit should be more efficient to work with than doing the terrain directly in the SMBX editor, ESPECIALLY with maps that have a lot of verticality like LCJ's or otherwise would be a headache to modify using the traditional method.

WHERE DO I GET IT?
Here! (GitHub repository)
Be sure to check the readme on that page before downloading.

Enjoy!

Re: The Overworld Tilekit

Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 5:35 pm
by Taycamgame
Seems very useful though the screenshot of the Tiled window looks a little complex. Does this come with documentation?

Also, is there any real advantage to using this as opposed to doing the traditional chunking method? As you'd end up with the same result either way.

Re: The Overworld Tilekit

Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 8:15 pm
by rixithechao
(I answered taycam's questions in codehaus. This post is mostly just reposting stuff from our discussion over there for the sake of other folks who might have similar questions here.)
Taycamgame wrote: Does this come with documentation?
Tiled has documentation on its website, here's a direct link:
https://doc.mapeditor.org/en/stable/

There's also a tutorial series for the software by Gamesfromscratch which I linked in the repo's readme but never shared here. I heavily recommend folks watch at least the first two videos in it:

Full playlist here


Taycamgame wrote: Also, is there any real advantage to using this as opposed to doing the traditional chunking method? As you'd end up with the same result either way.
The traditional chunking method, as taycam explained on discord, is
- assembling the terrain in the SMBX editor,
- exporting that image,
- deriving one or more tiles from that, and
- placing the tiles in the world map

In that respect the workflow with the tilekit is the same, you're just using a different editor for the first step. And if anyone's intimidated by the prospect of learning Tiled and doesn't mind designing and building within the limits, sticking to making the maps in SMBX is valid.

Again, though, one of the primary advantages of using the tilekit is that Tiled's layer functionality lets you take advantage of transparent tiles in a more modular way. To illustrate, here's a quick mockup of the example I gave in the OP:
Image

And here's the layers panel from the example file in action:
Image

Tiled's autotiling system (technically they're called Terrains but that's confusing so I'm just gonna use the industry-standard generic term here) is the other big perk, and clearly I've undersold this feature.
The tilekit comes with a handful of autotiles defined for the "SMB3 - Ground/Liquid" tileset, but you can always create additional ones as needed (that's why I recommended watching both the first AND second videos in the tutorial series.)
Image

With that said, if you're going to use the autotiles, keep this quirk in mind:
Image

Layers and autotiling are both world map features the SMBX2 team would like to implement in the future, but they're long-term goals. In the meantime, my hope is that the tilekit can help fill the usability gap there.

Re: The Overworld Tilekit

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 9:03 am
by SDA - SMBX
I'll probably use this tileset for some worlds in my episode. For what version is it, though?

Re: The Overworld Tilekit

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 9:18 am
by Cedur
SDA - SMBX wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 9:03 am
I'll probably use this tileset for some worlds in my episode. For what version is it, though?

None which you prefer using. (or do you now?) Just read the first two lines.

Re: The Overworld Tilekit

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:57 am
by SDA - SMBX
Cedur wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 9:18 am
None which you prefer using. (or do you now?) Just read the first two lines.
If it's for 2.0 I'll instantly skip it. And you already know why.

Re: The Overworld Tilekit

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 12:59 pm
by Enjl
SDA - SMBX wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:57 am
Cedur wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 9:18 am
None which you prefer using. (or do you now?) Just read the first two lines.
If it's for 2.0 I'll instantly skip it. And you already know why.
Nobody knows why cause you refuse to explain ;p

To reiterate on the answer the thread already provides: This is a tilekit for the Tiled software, not SMBX/2 or the 38A engine. The workflow is explained above.

Re: The Overworld Tilekit

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 2:28 pm
by PROX
I'd have to expand my stuff to get it to work on here. This looks really cool though.

Re: The Overworld Tilekit

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:31 pm
by SDA - SMBX
Enjl wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 12:59 pm
Nobody knows why cause you refuse to explain ;p
It's because I hate SMBX2. It's logic, isn't it?

But if it's for the "Tiled Software" or whatever it is called, why it's uploaded on the SMBX Graphics section?

Re: The Overworld Tilekit

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:47 pm
by Enjl
SDA - SMBX wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:31 pm
Enjl wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 12:59 pm
Nobody knows why cause you refuse to explain ;p
It's because I hate SMBX2. It's logic, isn't it?

But if it's for the "Tiled Software" or whatever it is called, why it's uploaded on the SMBX Graphics section?
1. We both know what I was asking, smartypants.

2. Presumably because this tool aids in graphics-related activities related to work in SMBX. Same logic as the tileset compiler and separator tool.

Re: The Overworld Tilekit

Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 7:22 am
by SDA - SMBX
Enjl wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:47 pm
We both know what I was asking, smartypants.
Oh, don't call me like that anymore... that's really offensive.

Re: The Overworld Tilekit

Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 7:57 am
by FireyPaperMario
Enjl wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:47 pm
SDA - SMBX wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:31 pm
Enjl wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 12:59 pm
Nobody knows why cause you refuse to explain ;p
It's because I hate SMBX2. It's logic, isn't it?

But if it's for the "Tiled Software" or whatever it is called, why it's uploaded on the SMBX Graphics section?
1. We both know what I was asking, smartypants.
Greatest backtalk from Enjl himself ever! But in all seriousness, would custom overworld map tiles be compactible with this kit?

Re: The Overworld Tilekit

Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 8:23 am
by Murphmario
FireyPaperMario wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 7:57 am
Enjl wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:47 pm
SDA - SMBX wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:31 pm

It's because I hate SMBX2. It's logic, isn't it?

But if it's for the "Tiled Software" or whatever it is called, why it's uploaded on the SMBX Graphics section?
1. We both know what I was asking, smartypants.
Greatest backtalk from Enjl himself ever! But in all seriousness, would custom overworld map tiles be compactible with this kit?
You'd have to put them all into a single image, but I think so.

Re: The Overworld Tilekit

Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 1:05 am
by Teemster2
This looks so cool. I would love to learn how to use it but hopefully the learning curve is not to big.

Re: The Overworld Tilekit

Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 3:58 am
by Squishy Rex
Teemster2 wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 1:05 am
This looks so cool. I would love to learn how to use it but hopefully the learning curve is not to big.
Honestly no, it's not that big of a learning curve. Once you get used to it, which won't take very long, it's really nice to use. If you've used layers in Paint.Net or Photoshop before for example it should feel pretty similar. If this is how world map production goes in the future for SMBX2 I'm certainly all for it.

Re: The Overworld Tilekit

Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 4:21 pm
by Teemster2
Squishy Rex wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 3:58 am
Teemster2 wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 1:05 am
This looks so cool. I would love to learn how to use it but hopefully the learning curve is not to big.
Honestly no, it's not that big of a learning curve. Once you get used to it, which won't take very long, it's really nice to use. If you've used layers in Paint.Net or Photoshop before for example it should feel pretty similar. If this is how world map production goes in the future for SMBX2 I'm certainly all for it.
I used Photoshop back in 2010 for college on a Mac. I could have went for design but I got tired of sitting in front of a computer all day and chose printing just as I was getting descent with the program. Have not used it since and forgot everything but I do use paint some. I'm very repetive/hands on so if I use it enough I can learn it.

This Definantly looks like the way to go. Thanks for that.

Also it's good to see a veteran such as yourself more active again.

Re: The Overworld Tilekit

Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 8:37 pm
by skyhighway
Enjl wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:47 pm
SDA - SMBX wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:31 pm
Enjl wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 12:59 pm
Nobody knows why cause you refuse to explain ;p
It's because I hate SMBX2. It's logic, isn't it?

But if it's for the "Tiled Software" or whatever it is called, why it's uploaded on the SMBX Graphics section?
1. We both know what I was asking, smartypants.

2. Presumably because this tool aids in graphics-related activities related to work in SMBX. Same logic as the tileset compiler and separator tool.
You can really feel the curse word embodied in the family friendly word that is smartypants.

Re: The Overworld Tilekit

Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2020 10:58 am
by SPEEDIE
SDA - SMBX wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 7:22 am
Enjl wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:47 pm
We both know what I was asking, smartypants.
Oh, don't call me like that anymore... that's really offensive.
Look at that, a 38-A user getting offended :O

No one has anything against you using 38-A, but just accept that SMBX2 is the true SMBX, not 38-A because SMBX2 is based on legacy SMBX! And your flair is offensive, if we're using the same logic as you are. Wow. :lol:

Re: The Overworld Tilekit

Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2020 11:18 am
by Enjl
I would appreciate if people would stop getting hung up about that exchange and continue talking about the actual tool at hand.

Re: The Overworld Tilekit

Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2020 11:43 am
by SDA - SMBX
No one has anything against you using 38-A, but just accept that SMBX2 is the true SMBX, not 38-A because SMBX2 is based on legacy SMBX! And your flair is offensive, if we're using the same logic as you are. Wow. :lol:
But I'm NOT using 38A. I'm using 1.3.